Animals

[Andreas]

When i started sculpting Animals the eyes were a task for me too and to be honest i also left just a hole .
But i never was satisfied with the Result so i did try and try again until it fits .
I will try to find a solution by sculpting a Boar too and if you like that i will show you how i did the eyes .

[stenfalk]

When i started sculpting Animals the eyes were a task for me too and to be honest i also left just a hole .
But i never was satisfied with the Result so i did try and try again until it fits .
I will try to find a solution by sculpting a Boar too and if you like that i will show you how i did the eyes .

Teach me the method, please. I want to be an attentive student.

[Cryns]

Dear Stenfalk,

Thanks for this fascinating discussion.

At the moment i am completely insecure.

Don't worry there is not a problem. There is not something wrong with your animal range uptil now. Not something that has to be changed or improved as soon as possible. Just see it as considerations you can work on in the future if you desire this yourself.

You understand my mental rupture?

Yes sure.

My conviction is the eyes of the painted pigs on the pictures look exactly as they should.

In that case I recommend you not to change your style of sculpting eyes.

i am forced to abstract. What does the human eye still perceive when a part of a body has only the size of 1 cm?

In strict terms of scaling down you are right.
In terms of technical modeling of scaling down objects you are right too.

But remember you are making sculpts that represent living creatures.
To abstract may also mean: pay extra attention to the most important elements of a creature. And delete, size down or simplify the lesser important ones.

Ask yourself: what is the most important element of a living creatures exterior appearance?
For most animals, biological speaking, its the mouth (for breathing, eating and drinking and making sound) together with the anus (where it all comes out again)

But psychologically and speaking in terms of iconism and human communication, the eyes are more important. Because the eye functions as a doorway to the creatures inside and soul. A cartoon karakter is unthinkable without clear appealing eyes. Even the most simple icon of a human or animal has eyes. The eyes create our personal contact with a creature. Does he see us or not? Will it run away or stay? Where does it look at? At food? A female?

If eyes are black holes, the animal does come alive less effective. Thats why I believe exaggerating the size and shape of an eye brings the creature alive. Imagine the difference between a well sculpted human figure face with no eyes painted at it and another one with two black dots. The first one is most realistic. But the second one is a stronger image. Remember the eyes of classic sculptures: if the eyeball is just realistically sculpted, its dead. Thats why the sculptors make holes where the pupils and irisses should be. To give it more expression and articulation. But realistic? No not at all.

Consider this when you judge the eyes of your animals. To give them a strong appearance and give them a soul the eyes are important. I think no hole but just a surface with a little ledge, a single or double smooth ridge, will create more opportunity for painting a lively eye. For a painter its difficult to paint an eyelid accent or a blinker (light white dot representing reflexion of light) into a little hole. Much more easy when it can be achieve by dry brushing an actual ridge.

Making the eye too large does damage to your desire to make a realistic downscaling. Cartoonesk result is a danger. But at the same time you give the fur of the boars very large, thick tufts of hair. Thats also a simplification. An abstraction. And an exaggeration at the same time. Why not treat the eyes like you did with the fur? Exaggerate?

Finally I can recommend you to have a look once more at other models of animals. How did those sculptors solve the problem?

I wish you a very nice Christmas Stenfalk.

[Andreas]

Finally I can recommend you to have a look once more at other models of animals. How did those sculptors solve the problem?.

There is a medieval Hunting Set with a very good boar , maybe this can help

[Wiking]

Stenfalk put a lot of realism into these "discussing about truffle" wild boars.
My favorite are the dogs!

[Beano Boy]

Many Years ago, ( 60yrs ),while making puppets,with my Dear Mom,I used to use ball bearings out of old bike wheels to create the eye balls.
So with that thought in mind I cruised EBay and found these.
I thought they might help you form eyes.



For making the Master Patterns,to be used for making your moulds,why not use these tiny balls?
Sold On EBay Steel ballbearings 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10. MM Price £2.49 plus £1.00 postage

The 1mm steel balls simple pushed into place forms eyeball, then eyelid simple formed by whatever means you wish to use.
Just an odd idea Torsten. BB

[stenfalk]

Yesterday i've watched a lot of photos with wild boars, diminished them, looked at them with the magnifying glass again and again with the main focus at the eyes and their visibility .This way i have not come to a result. Is it tendencially correct, well and appropriately to sculpt an eye on the 1/72 boar, or is rather wrong, bad and inappropriate ?

Now you can call me quietly a man without a backbone, unprincipled or easily suggestible - but I would probably still worry about it if I haven't decided to try it .

However, i've made the experience i can model very fine and small parts with Andrea Sculp . So I decided to use this material. I have selected only a few figurines, in case it does not succeed. And have made eyes on them. There are only small improvements to follow.

I have to be honest: I like it a lot. And i'm even satisfied with it . Of course, they are not perfect in scaling. But they are small enough i don't despair. It has been possible to form it under 0.5 mm in diameter. Don't be irritated please: the obtrusive visibility is caused by the color of clay.

I think i will retrofit all so far developed pigs .

But before beginning i have that question to you: what do you say? Is it good?







@Mr. Cryns

I must refer once again to your statements concerning the fur of boars.

But at the same time you give the fur of the boars very large, thick tufts of hair. Thats also a simplification. An abstraction.

I think you appreciate the thickness of the tresses too strongly. I have strongened the contrasts in the photographs, otherwise it would be less clear. In addition, the wintercoat of the pigs (mating time) is comprehensibly longer and brighter than in summer. You can recognize this on appropriate picture documents.



I think I'm very close. But this should not be self-praise...

@BB

The 1mm steel balls simple pushed into place forms eyeball, then eyelid simple formed by whatever means you wish to use.
Just an odd idea Torsten. BB

Thank you for your interest and for the idea. I have already searched for similar objects and i will endeavor soon to beads for mills, which are already from 0.2 mm diameter. But you can see, i have also practiced to roll small balls of modeling clay - quite successful. Maybe that will be enough, especially since the wild pigs have no classic "eyelids". The eye looks much more "framed"...

[Andreas]

To me this looks better then the Hole .
For sculpting a "Frame" you can use an Injektion Needle as it is used for Chainmail .

[stenfalk]

To me this looks better then the Hole .
For sculpting a "Frame" you can use an Injektion Needle as it is used for Chainmail .

Thank you! I am also convinced of the result. I would not have thought it possible.

But i would like to ask a question if you do not mind. How can i understand your tip? Do you use the injection needle like a stamp? And if so, in serial execution? Or with defunct angle of pointed? Which needle size has proven itself best? I'd like to see how you do that. Also a result too, please. For a comparison...

[Andreas]

O.K. i will do one . Sorry , my English is too bad to describe the use of the Needle.
If it is done i will send it to you for your own use .
If you like , its up to you to show it or not .
Your beautiful sculpts deserve more Attention in important Details.

[Cryns]

what do you say? Is it good?

Yes I like it. I think its an improvement and I agree with Andreas in this:

To me this looks better then the Hole .

Besides increasing the expression in the animals face, my opinion also has much to do with the joy of painting.
That means: the details of a figure should be dry brush suitable.
Now these 'new' eyes are dry brush suitable too I think.
The boars' fur was like that already.

This means the painter of your model has different options:
The simple option is to dry brush and this will articulate the 'new' eyes a bit so they become 'lively' eyes which was not possible with your 'old' eyes.
The more laborious, time consuming and difficult option is to paint everything with a tiny pointed brush, using strong binoculars. That was already an option with the 'old' eyes and still it is with the 'new' eyes, if desired.

I think you appreciate the thickness of the tresses too strongly.

Well thats also because with very little brushwork effort it gave a fast and great result. As soon as the fur was flat and no tresses were sculpted by you or these were lost during casting, the dry brush effect did not work out and I had to hand paint every single tress (this was the lower flank side of one of the mature boars.)

I have to be honest: I like it a lot. And i'm even satisfied with it

That is very good to hear. That means this whole discussion is fruitful and turns out to be constructive to all of us.

For sculpting a "Frame" you can use an Injektion Needle as it is used for Chainmail .

Very good suggestion Andreas, I did not know this. In fact I have those needles at home but never used them for sculpting.

How can i understand your tip? Do you use the injection needle like a stamp

Stenfalk that was exactly my question to Andreas.

s it good?

Stenfalk: Using the needle you may continue the experiment: sculpt 'angry' eyes for the fighting boars. And sculpt 'satisfied' eyes for the other animals.

[Kostis Ornerakis]

I'll describe what I do gor buttons. I hope that it helps. I put a metal cutting wheel in my Dremel and cut the nose of the injection needle vertically. Then with an appropriate drill, I clean the hole from inside. After this I attach the needle to Dremel's chock, and with a sandpaper I clean the outside of the hole. Now the needle used as a stamp, can work on clay. One can also use it as a punching tool with a hammer.
By the way your work with the eyes is excellent. And I have to say I loved Mr. Cryns painting.

[stenfalk]

@ Mr. Cryns

Using the needle you may continue the experiment: sculpt 'angry' eyes for the fighting boars. And sculpt 'satisfied' eyes for the other animals.

Do you want to drive me crazy ? For the first time i have been eyes shaped and you are already talking about the attempt to reflect feelings in it. I think you overestimate my skills . But i am grateful a little that you consider it possible . Certainly a thought amused me: How should be, in your opinion, the expression in the eyes of the male who has just risen to the sow ?

@Andreas

Sorry , my English is too bad to describe the use of the Needle.

I speak german and am looking forward to a PM; that should simplify it to explain your techniques. Is that okay for you? And something else - i am a visual student . Sometimes photos say more than a thousand words...

@ Kostis

Thank you for your support . I think i've understood your way. So as you describe the manufacture of the embossing tool i have earlier built the on-board machine guns for 1/72 aircraft models. I even think on my roof still lie old injection-needles. I just did not know if i should edit the needles or apply them without modification. Anyway, i will search them today, tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. As my grandfather always said: "There is no way to know until you try it."

[Andreas]

@Andreas



I speak german and am looking forward to a PM; that should simplify it to explain your techniques. Is that okay for you? And something else - i am a visual student . Sometimes photos say more than a thousand words...

Sorry , but i will not post my Pictures in your Topic .
If we would talk about an usual Subjekt like a Horse , no Problem . But your Boars are not usual in this scale , but of course something uniqe with a lot of deserved Attention .
So doing the same Thing to show you a way to sculpt eyes should not end in Comparison .
I also lern best by looking at a thing but better is to have it in my hands . i have started zhe Boar and if its done you get a PM .

[stenfalk]

Andreas, that's how it was meant, I look forward to it!

[Beano Boy]

I would like to see a reflection in those eyes, so under a magnifying glass, I can see what these Wild Party Porkers are looking at.
" They`re Probably looking at each other BB ." "eh! Oh,yes" BB

[stenfalk]

...or the build of Ursus arctos arctos...

I don't know if anyone among you succeeds it, but for me it's not easy to knead the required quantity of modeling compound for sculpting every time. The remains are however too valuable to throw away. So i don't must do, i formed a wireframe some time ago which i gradually built up with these mixtures. Thus not by chance the body of a brown bear has developed over the course of time. He is even to be recognized in the meantime.







The bear will be a medium-sized specimen, the shoulder height is about 115-120 cm, when you convert its dimensions. It could be a beautiful mother for two cute little bear cubs.
So in addition to the regular work the basis for a new animal has emerged.

[DickerThomas]

great Torsten ...

[Susofrick]

Did someone ask for a comparison pic with Torsten's and Alex' boars? Here is one. Alex' boar is bigger and wilder than Torsten's. Other than that I think Obelix will love them both.

[stenfalk]

Did someone ask for a comparison pic with Torsten's and Alex' boars? Here is one. Alex' boar is bigger and wilder than Torsten's. Other than that I think Obelix will love them both.

Thanks Gunnar, for me this is a very helpful photo. I have never seen the pig's design by alex in a direct comparison, neither in size nor in detail (i must confess, only to see this boar to buy the hunting party was too expensive in price... ). And you place it right next to one of mine! I think they fit together well. You have to note left to be seen is a young sow and right a grown strong boar. The males from my hand are also slightly bigger than the sows, but they are probably in the middle of the animals pictured here.

But that's just one side of the story. Maybe you find it ridiculous, but it motivates and fills me with confidence that my animals don't appear lost next to the works of one of my great idols...