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Austrian Grenadiers 1813

Posted by sansovino on 14 Jan 2019, 12:49

I have to present my next regiment, this time Austrian Grenadiers with the weill sculpted Hät-figures. It will been integrated in a future diorama-project inclusive an austrian artillery battery.

I can been with its green colour the 28th or 10th regiment (both Bohemian).

The figures aren´t already finished. I am searching still, which patterns had the textille tops of the fur-hats. I have found so many different patterns, that I am asking now the specialists which patterns are the right ones. Who knows it?

One last remark: Sorry, the figures are looking a little bit yellow-ish, which seems to be a result of the artificial light. All figures are really in white.

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sansovino  Germany
 
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Posted by sansovino on 14 Jan 2019, 16:21

and 2 photos of their rear ...


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Posted by MABO on 14 Jan 2019, 18:45

Hello,
I am no expert, but in my books I found some of these pics. The colour was corresponding with the facings of the regiment.

Hope it helps.

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MABO  Europe
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Posted by MABO on 14 Jan 2019, 18:45

Btw: Impressive amount of painted figs!
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Posted by FredG on 14 Jan 2019, 20:58

As MABO said, the colour is the same as the facings.

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Here's a couple of examples . The first (left) is close to the one I used.

The bearskins worn by the grenadiers had a brass plate in the front, and two peaks, similar to the tschako. At the rear, it carried a cloth device, the 'lehnstuhlmutzl', which was in the regimental coulur, with white braiding. The black and yellow pom-pom was carried on the right.


Don't forget the pom pom and the feltzeschen :P

Whenever possible, all infantry wore a sprig of oak leaves in their head-wear. This was the 'feldzeichen', which had been the symbol of the Habsburg troops since medieval times.
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Posted by Wolfgang Meyer on 15 Jan 2019, 00:48

Wonderful Grenadiers!

The color of the bearskin cap for the Austrian grenadiers is light yellow in 1813 for all grenadiers.
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Posted by FredG on 15 Jan 2019, 01:08

When did that regulation come into force please?
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Posted by MABO on 15 Jan 2019, 09:51

As far as I know it was introduced 1813, as Wolfgang has written. But I found some sources indicating, that this regulation was not turn into practice directly.
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Posted by FredG on 15 Jan 2019, 12:01

Exactly Jan.
The rapidly formed new army could have been issued with the new regulations but I doubt the old issue was withdrawn from existing regiments. The Austrians were notorious for wearng old issue uniforms and parts thereof until they wore out. I'd therefore say both facing colour and yellow were still in use for some time. The bearskins were mainly prized hand-me-downs anyway.

The bearskin bag at the rear was made of the facing colour on white until the 1798 uniform regs changed it to a uniform Kaisergelb on white. However, these hats were built to last and it was of course easier to get the facing colour material, so the changeover was very progressive and really it can only be certain that it was the case from 1811 when the regs of that year confirm the Kaisergelb.


It looks like a toss a coin job to me
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FredG  United Kingdom
 
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Posted by Wolfgang Meyer on 15 Jan 2019, 12:09

We had to repaint a lot of Grenadiers hats for the Cröbern-1813 Diorama. There were over 5000 grenadiers.

The research was carried out in the HGM in Vienna and in the Vienna War Archive by a real expert.
Image

https://sweetwater-forum.net/index.php/ ... 54.45.html

Grenadier-Division Weißenwolf at Cröbern
Last edited by Paul on 15 Jan 2019, 16:35, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Image link corrected
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Wolfgang Meyer  Germany
 
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Posted by sansovino on 15 Jan 2019, 12:48

Many thanks Mabo, Fred G und Wolfgang for your good informations to the subject. It´s really quite often hard to find the right informations to Napoleonic uniforms. It´s horrible how often the different countries have changed their uniform regulations - and the question what was at first only a regulation, but what was worn in practice.

At first I was frigthened of Wolfgang´s information which would have the consequence to repaint all tops. In comparison to the 5.000 grenadiers of Wolfgang´s diorama a minor task, but still 1-2 hours work. I had recognized also before, that the tops of Cröbern were different to all uniform plates, but I thought it was done in reason of enormous amount of theirs grenadiers. Now I know, it was the result of an intensive research.

I have to rethink the matter now. I see 2 suitable possibilities for me:
1) to follow FredG and Mabo, that the austrian "Schlendrian" prevent the regiments to change immediatly their top colour
2) or more elegant to switch from 1813 to the year 1809 with the battles of Aspern and Wagram - my diorama won´t represent a whole battle and will show "only a small part with an artillery battery and some troops

We will see ... eventually the debate will continue to reproduce still more surprises
sansovino  Germany
 
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Posted by sansovino on 15 Jan 2019, 12:50

and many thanks also for the sweetwater link with his interesting background informations
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Posted by FredG on 15 Jan 2019, 13:28

It's also interesting that the information on the lehnstuhlmutzl also varies. Some refer to it as being in the regimental facing with added white braid and others it's white with the regimental facing colour added in lace. in our scale of 1.72 I don't think that matters too much though :-D

I just found this, it may be of interest.

https://dokumen.tips/documents/the-austro-hungarian-army-1798-1814.html
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FredG  United Kingdom
 
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Posted by FredG on 15 Jan 2019, 18:03

I forgot to ask in my previous post.

Wolfgang, could you please give a reference / references to your real expert's research at the HGM in Vienna and in the Vienna War Archive please. :yeah:
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FredG  United Kingdom
 
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Posted by Gowan on 16 Jan 2019, 09:51

Awesome work!
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Posted by FredG on 16 Jan 2019, 09:54

sansovino wrote:One last remark: Sorry, the figures are looking a little bit yellow-ish, which seems to be a result of the artificial light. All figures are really in white.


Yellowish would be more accurate I feel ;-)
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