Miniatures News

Hat napoleonic 1815 French marching infantry

Posted by Graeme on 20 Sep 2018, 16:42

In the case of the 1815 marching set I suppose they are meant to match HaT's French Line Fuseliers set which are not big figures.

I agree that there has been scale creep in the hobby with most of the manufacturers trying to put more detail on the figures and making the figures bigger to fit the detail in. These marching and command sets are, I think, a kind of retro-fit to add more marching and command figures to older sets that were made before the introduction of the MAC concept; so should they match the size of the older or the newer figures?

Perhaps the difference is greater with other fiigures but looking at the two on Chris's photo the size difference is not a big deal for me. The new figures eyes are about level with the other guys cheek bone and the body proportions are not way out of whack, I can live with it. Looking at a couple of figures that were sitting on the desk in front of me; the eyes of the Airfix highlander are level with the place where the Italeri riflemans' cross belts meet in the middle of his chest. That's a size difference (yes, I know one is 1/76 but I ain't convinced the other is 1/72).

There has been a lot of criticism about the 24 fig sets on the HaT forum: I think HaT has taken it on board and I suspect future infantry sets will be 48 figures. And, while there are still some sets being made with the old production methods (these ones included), with the newer sets made with digital masters HaT is going to some trouble to match the figures to the size their customers on the forum think is appropriate. That's a good development.
User avatar
Graeme  Australia
 
Posts: 724
Member since:
27 Nov 2015, 02:39


Posted by sansovino on 20 Sep 2018, 16:56

Dear Zulu,

you have really a good radar-system to react if there will been a topic of Haet-figures in our forum.

Sorry, I dont´agree with you. 34-40 european cent for a small plastic figure is certainly too expensive. The figures aren´t of outstanding quality in sculpting or material. And I have to add still the shipping costs to the selling-price. Zvezda hadn´t success with this kind of prices (art of war-serie) and Haet won´t have it.

I agree absolutly with you that a certain rise of prices is inevitable - less shops, less collectors and higher production costs - , but 40 % and still more in comparison to former sets aren´t comprehensible. Most other manufacturers are offering us actually for the same price still more figures. And I don´t agree with your comments on metal figures which are certainly not "much cheaper to produce" - the moulds and small numbers makes them in reality much more expensive in production.

Nevertheless I share your hope that Haet will return to a more active production of new sets, but please with more quality and fair prices! Their success should been also ours. You will still buy sets eventually to any prices. I can´t afford it and I won´t do it for figures which are of moderate quality and size.

Eventually I will reduce my buying and concentrate me more of outstanding miniatures of small metal-figure-producers which are certainly more expensive but of a far greater delight of vivid sculpting and outstanding scenery like Frank Ziegler Minaturen, Art Miniaturen or Franznap. Eventually the times for big armies are gone ....
sansovino  Germany
 
Posts: 499
Member since:
27 Mar 2014, 21:42

Posted by zulu`s 1000`s of em on 20 Sep 2018, 17:06

Sansovino, my radar system is that I read almost everything, but it is rare I feel that I can add value to any given debate or care enough to do so, this debate started as a moan about figures being too small, when that has been shown not to be the case the debate has moved to not good value for money, I am just waiting for the wrong kind of plastic and wrong colour plastic and we will have the full set of usual grumbles, while I respect everyone`s opinion I don`t always agree with them and this is a case in point.
zulu`s 1000`s of em  United Kingdom
 
Posts: 257
Member since:
01 Nov 2015, 15:53

Posted by Rich W on 20 Sep 2018, 17:53

I think there are many valid points to both sides of the argument. However, (daring to risk my opinion that isn't worth much...) I don't think the size comparison is too bad. Chris' work is as close to perfection as I've seen, so I appreciate he may find the 1mm or so too much of a difference to keep in line with the high quality he sets out. For me, and my very amateurish standards, I can live with that size difference and perhaps, as others have stated, once painted up as large units, the difference between them won't be noticeable.

Pricewise-yes the price per figure is a big increase from their previous sets. However, Hat's sets have often been cheaper than the majority on the market. Comparing these prices to other manufacturers the new prices are not outrageous. 2 boxes of 24 would mean a cost of approx £9 for 48 figs. Ceaser offer less figures for almost the same price. Red Box, Imex and Accurate are only £1 cheaper. Zvezda are more expensive. Revell sets vary hugely online in price. It seems that only Strelets offer a noticeably cheaper figure to cost ratio. And there seems to be some grudge between supporters of Hat and Strelets and between the companies themselves (what happened between the two companies?!).

I say all this as a fairly neutral collector-I have a few Hat sets I really love, but quite a few that I don't like. And I have a couple of Strelets sets I like, and again several I don't. It's all just a shame if new sets end up not selling-there's no incentive for the companies to continue. And then there are no more plastic figures to buy...which would probably be good for my social life, wallet and exercise routine...

I'll duck down behind cover now that I've voiced my opinion!
Rich W  United Kingdom
 
Posts: 103
Member since:
05 Feb 2018, 23:40

Posted by Ochoin on 20 Sep 2018, 20:49

zulu`s 1000`s of em wrote:Sansovino, my radar system is that I read almost everything, but it is rare I feel that I can add value to any given debate or care enough to do so, this debate started as a moan about figures being too small, when that has been shown not to be the case the debate has moved to not good value for money, I am just waiting for the wrong kind of plastic and wrong colour plastic and we will have the full set of usual grumbles, while I respect everyone`s opinion I don`t always agree with them and this is a case in point.


This seems to me to be a fair opinion. I guess a "good moan" might be therapeutic but I personally would prefer a HaT that thrives and turns out lots of quality figures.

Slightly smaller figures, I've found, can be compensated for. Some of the giant Zvesda & Italeri figures in the past were useless because they couldn't be made to fit in.

For a wargamer who bases (typically) 4 infantry figures on a base, the smaller size of these figures can be adjusted by gluing a 1-2 mm square of card under the figure bases before gluing them on the larger 4 figure base.

I've done this many times before & the result, once the base is flocked, is good.

I guess I'll allow myself to be "ripped-off" , as some would have it, & buy a few boxes to see what they look like.

donald
User avatar
Ochoin  Scotland
 
Posts: 1513
Member since:
16 Jan 2010, 04:00

Posted by marc zijp on 20 Sep 2018, 23:27

I’d like to add some more info to the size debat:
Hat new French longcoats (8234) are 22,5mm (= 1,62m)
Strelets Old Guard at ease are 22,5mm (= 1,62m)
Hat French Chasseurs (8170) are 23mm (= 1,66m)
Revell Grenadier Guard are 24mm (= 1,73m)
Hat French Young Guard (8034) are 24mm (= 1,73m)
Hat French Line Fusiliers (8041) are 23mm (= 1,66m)
Hat French Light Infantry (8042) are 24mm (= 1,73m)
Waterloo1815 French Line Voltigeurs at Waterloo are 24,5 (= 1,77m)
These sets are all meant for or can be used at the Waterloo campaign.

-Light infantry was an elite, but were always (supposed to be) smaller men.
-Line was diverse in size and physique.
-Guard were always the tallest, strongest and firm men.

-At the end of the Napoleonic era there was not much choice left as a generation already died on the battlefields. The standards were difficult to maintain, but the ranks had to be filled.
- We are talking about small differences as you can see.
- We are talking about 1/72 scale. How far do you want to get lost in details?
- We are talking about a hobby. In which we all make our own choices for our own different raisons.
- About the prices: I think Rich W made a very good point. Not that I like it, but it’s fair enough.

Everyone can make their conclusions. I’m sure I did. :
:-D :yeah:
marc zijp  
 
Posts: 269
Member since:
02 Oct 2009, 22:35

Help keep the forum online!
or become a supporting member

Posted by Beano Boy on 21 Sep 2018, 00:49

On all fronts well said guys. It has been interesting reading your comments.
I look forward to seeing any or all of these figures painted, and if possible presented here.
In this way the Forum is very well supported too. BB
Beano Boy  England
Supporting Member (Gold) Supporting Member (Gold)
 
Posts: 6219
Member since:
03 Sep 2013, 14:45

Posted by FredG on 23 Sep 2018, 12:32

:-D I like the size and I like being able to buy an all marching set, it's what infantry did a lot of. The price is still a lot less than most of the competition. Well done Hat.

( I so hate being controversial)
User avatar
FredG  United Kingdom
 
Posts: 1208
Member since:
09 Dec 2011, 21:47

Posted by Marc the plasticsfan on 27 Sep 2018, 14:18

Yup, price wise they seem to be on a par with when I used to buy Zvezda. When I started collecting big time (what) 15 years ago, a box of 48 was probably £4. So 15 years of inflation has doubled the price. Seems about right for me. Franznap are over £1 a figure now, so at less than 20p each I still make these a bargain for general wargaming use.

Height wise - a slip of card and voila. Unlike the Italeri giants. With teh Waterloo Prussian command, I will have to cut the bases off to save a mm or two, just to bring them closer to my collection. But i am still glad to have them.

If I had a complaint, it is that the marching set in greatcoats is just that, marching. I would have loved the action poses, as well as the officer - who I rate as one of the finest officer figures in plastic.

SO I am happy and will buy a fair few boxes.
Marc the plasticsfan  United Kingdom
 
Posts: 50
Member since:
01 Oct 2015, 13:58

Posted by marc zijp on 27 Sep 2018, 15:33

Dear Marc the Plasticfan,
If you are not stuck to one company and if you have some patience: Strelets has planned French Line Infantry Advancing. Probably in greatcoats (like their latest three sets). And another set of marching line (shako) too.

Depending on what you like, how critical you are and what your taste is: Hat has got the old set 8136 French Line Infantry in greatcoats. For 1805, but longcoats covers a lot of problems with the accuracy and the guard wore bicornes when the bearskin was lost. And don’t forget the limited stocks, at least for the Waterloo period.
Same for Hat set 8034 French Young Guard. Really old now, but they can serve as almost anything.
Hope this helps?
marc zijp  
 
Posts: 269
Member since:
02 Oct 2009, 22:35

Posted by Ochoin on 28 Sep 2018, 00:11

Marc the plasticsfan wrote:Yup, price wise they seem to be on a par with when I used to buy Zvezda. When I started collecting big time (what) 15 years ago, a box of 48 was probably £4. So 15 years of inflation has doubled the price. Seems about right for me. Franznap are over £1 a figure now, so at less than 20p each I still make these a bargain for general wargaming use.

Height wise - a slip of card and voila. Unlike the Italeri giants. With teh Waterloo Prussian command, I will have to cut the bases off to save a mm or two, just to bring them closer to my collection. But i am still glad to have them.

If I had a complaint, it is that the marching set in greatcoats is just that, marching. I would have loved the action poses, as well as the officer - who I rate as one of the finest officer figures in plastic.

SO I am happy and will buy a fair few boxes.


Thanks, Mark.
I've always found your recommendations to be very solid.

donald
User avatar
Ochoin  Scotland
 
Posts: 1513
Member since:
16 Jan 2010, 04:00

Posted by Beano Boy on 20 Oct 2018, 10:24

Image

Another suicide package from HAT
This time 20 in the box For those who like to buy on E BAY the rip off cost is £ 7.99 free post
This type of marketing has now pushed the price up on the HAT 28mm range on E BAY.
For all you loyal HAT supporters this thankless Company is really not supporting you at all.

HAT Industries that was : and is now, need to have a level head for mathematics applied
where box contents are a big concern over a small handful. :eh:
:mrgreen: I wonder what they charge for their washing up bowls?

To be critical over issues like this is a right we can all apply, especially you guys on the HAT Forum.

Image

The larger content of 56 Prussians are £8.08 at M. H.

On EBAY £8.99 plus £2.50 postage.__ From the USA £10.49 and Drum Roll Please £20.33 Postage.

Well that`s enough from me. :-D BB
Beano Boy  England
Supporting Member (Gold) Supporting Member (Gold)
 
Posts: 6219
Member since:
03 Sep 2013, 14:45

Previous page

Return to Miniatures News