Here the link:
http://kamar-zinnfiguren.de/de/KAMAR-Figuren-1-584/KAMAR-Zinnfiguren-komplette-List-593/
Thanks and cheers,
Andi
Miniatures News
KAMR News
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• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
Well, good sculpting indeed!
But - this is my opinion - the third picture is very heavy stuff. I think an obviously violated and now unconscious woman, mistreated by a drunken warrior, is not suitable for 72-scale figures.
Yes a lot of figure scenes showing war, violence, fighting, combat, sometimes bleeding dead soldiers -sometimes with questionable ideological accessoires, this is right, there is a variaty of induvidual taste, and so we should accept some controversial discussion. And yes, there are erotical 72-scenes around sexuality too, it is an other genre , o.k. why not?
But I think 72-scenes around sexual violation and torture are things I don't agree, It is an subject, where I can't accept miniaturisation in this way.
Greetings
Frank
But - this is my opinion - the third picture is very heavy stuff. I think an obviously violated and now unconscious woman, mistreated by a drunken warrior, is not suitable for 72-scale figures.
Yes a lot of figure scenes showing war, violence, fighting, combat, sometimes bleeding dead soldiers -sometimes with questionable ideological accessoires, this is right, there is a variaty of induvidual taste, and so we should accept some controversial discussion. And yes, there are erotical 72-scenes around sexuality too, it is an other genre , o.k. why not?
But I think 72-scenes around sexual violation and torture are things I don't agree, It is an subject, where I can't accept miniaturisation in this way.
Greetings
Frank
- Frankzett
- Posts: 333
- Member since:
29 Mar 2010, 20:25
Hi Frank.
I really appreciate your comment and apologize that my figures offend you.
They are of course not sculpted to offend anyone. They just are one more opportunity for all the collector's and Diorama-Builders which like a bit more realism inside their works. This is a real old tradition, established since the invention of the flat figures.
Cheers,
Andi
I really appreciate your comment and apologize that my figures offend you.
They are of course not sculpted to offend anyone. They just are one more opportunity for all the collector's and Diorama-Builders which like a bit more realism inside their works. This is a real old tradition, established since the invention of the flat figures.
Cheers,
Andi
-
andi
- Posts: 184
- Member since:
11 Jan 2011, 16:54
@ Frankzett :
Hi, Have you seen that ?
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=74 SLAVES
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=2420 SLAVE MARKET KIDS AND SLAVES VIOLENTED
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=2320 CHRISTIAN TORTURED ON CROSS
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=2318 WOMEN AND KID VIOLENTED
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=836 INDIAN HOLDING ENNEMY HEAD
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=284 ONE SHOOTING A PRISONNER WHILE ANOTHER ONE IS HOLDING ENNEMY HEAD
And I can find more examples of other types of figures poses.
I Can understand you can be offended by Kamar's new figures but I never ever heard you about the others examples. Why not writting a letter to others manufacturers to warn them about that?
To my mind, KAMAR had made historical figures depicting an "after battle scene" wich surely really happened by the past and still now everywhere around the world.
Even if that's violent and obscene, I'm more shocked by kids being separate from their parent at a slave market, by the prisonner defenceless being shot in the head or by the christ being crucified.
That's to say "KAMAR"s Affair" is not big deal.
Hi, Have you seen that ?
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=74 SLAVES
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=2420 SLAVE MARKET KIDS AND SLAVES VIOLENTED
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=2320 CHRISTIAN TORTURED ON CROSS
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=2318 WOMEN AND KID VIOLENTED
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=836 INDIAN HOLDING ENNEMY HEAD
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=284 ONE SHOOTING A PRISONNER WHILE ANOTHER ONE IS HOLDING ENNEMY HEAD
And I can find more examples of other types of figures poses.
I Can understand you can be offended by Kamar's new figures but I never ever heard you about the others examples. Why not writting a letter to others manufacturers to warn them about that?
To my mind, KAMAR had made historical figures depicting an "after battle scene" wich surely really happened by the past and still now everywhere around the world.
Even if that's violent and obscene, I'm more shocked by kids being separate from their parent at a slave market, by the prisonner defenceless being shot in the head or by the christ being crucified.
That's to say "KAMAR"s Affair" is not big deal.
- SKORRA
- Posts: 108
- Member since:
02 Feb 2013, 11:53
There is no "KAMAR's Affair", there is my opinion . 
I am no mores guardian, I told my view and I explain why. And I wrote "we should accept some controversial discussion", o.k. sorry
I mean "We should allow some controversial discussion" - so everybody is free to post a relevant article.
@ andi
There is really no reason to apologize, we have different views, so what?
@ SKORRA
YES, I THINK THESE SETS AIN'T NICE TOO IN SEVERAL DETAILS.
I do NOT have to justify myself for any omission - hey - may be you are a mores guardian?
The second thing, to write letters - why? We have this great forum to discuss about figures around the world so we can do this with this subject too ...
Greetings
Frank
I am no mores guardian, I told my view and I explain why. And I wrote "we should accept some controversial discussion", o.k. sorry
I mean "We should allow some controversial discussion" - so everybody is free to post a relevant article. @ andi
There is really no reason to apologize, we have different views, so what?
Yes I know that, but it is far from my taste too.This is a real old tradition, established since the invention of the flat figures
@ SKORRA
I never ever heard you about the others examples. Why not writting a letter to others manufacturers to warn them about that?
YES, I THINK THESE SETS AIN'T NICE TOO IN SEVERAL DETAILS.
I do NOT have to justify myself for any omission - hey - may be you are a mores guardian?
The second thing, to write letters - why? We have this great forum to discuss about figures around the world so we can do this with this subject too ...
Greetings
Frank
- Frankzett
- Posts: 333
- Member since:
29 Mar 2010, 20:25
Hello Frankzett, I agree with you that not everything is suitable to show in any scale. However, some things are necsesary to remind people that what happend in the pat, must stay in the past.
so, in one way, it does add realism in the scene as it did happend in the past, and some things still happens, and the other way it can be very offensive for people to see what is made. Ie a battlefield in the midst of the heath without wounded and deadth's is nice to see, but very unrealistic. So we must all make choices what to make and what to show here.
so, in one way, it does add realism in the scene as it did happend in the past, and some things still happens, and the other way it can be very offensive for people to see what is made. Ie a battlefield in the midst of the heath without wounded and deadth's is nice to see, but very unrealistic. So we must all make choices what to make and what to show here.
-
mickey mouse
Supporting Member (Gold) - Posts: 1433
- Member since:
24 May 2012, 19:42
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Hello Frank and everybody
I just want to share my point of view about this
Well,I dont want to sound like barbaric or same,but personally I think is just a figure,a figure who reflects a thing that real happened in the past and still happens in some parts of the world,but at the end is just a 1/72 figure,nobody is going to become a criminal for that.
Anyway if you think it carefully,any military figure with a weapon,in the end is violent,maybe not so explicit as a mutilation or a man being tortured,but it reflects violent things too.
technically there not exist politically correct military figures,except the pedestrians for rail dioramas but I have my doubts about if those figures offends someone too,like things are going nowadays everything is possible !!
I just want to share my point of view about this
Well,I dont want to sound like barbaric or same,but personally I think is just a figure,a figure who reflects a thing that real happened in the past and still happens in some parts of the world,but at the end is just a 1/72 figure,nobody is going to become a criminal for that.
Anyway if you think it carefully,any military figure with a weapon,in the end is violent,maybe not so explicit as a mutilation or a man being tortured,but it reflects violent things too.
technically there not exist politically correct military figures,except the pedestrians for rail dioramas but I have my doubts about if those figures offends someone too,like things are going nowadays everything is possible !!
-
J_A_
- Posts: 56
- Member since:
20 Aug 2016, 17:45
Wow this is really the best discussion I have ever read at Benno's Forum.
And yes, all I am writing here is SERIOUS.
NO IRONY AND CYNISM PLEASE
This is all about the core, the basic backbone of what our sick, childish but very interesting hobby or profession is all about.
First of all I have to thank Frankzett for starting this discussion.
I was very surprised to read your words Frankzett. They puzzled me. My first reaction was exactly the same as Skorra's, but my second thought was: Frankzett is just sharing his EMOTIONS with us. Which is a gentle thing to do and I support you in that all the way. You made me very curious because you seem to draw a line for yourself: if I understand you well, mutilation of male humans on the battlefield is very unpleasant but still on the safe side of that line. Depicting Hitlers army in full glory in action at the battlefield is on the safe side too. But non-explicit sexual violence is at the wrong side. We talk about emotions, not about ethics, let that be clear. So I wonder: is that only your personal emotional reaction just like you say? Or are your own wife and kids (if you have any) playing a part in this in your sub-conscious? Would you have felt the same ten or twenty years ago when you were a young (and probably wilder) man with less responsibilities in life?
I am asking myself: what is more terrible: mutilating another man in battle just because you get payed for it as a mercenary, or raping a defenseless woman and knocking her unconscious when her children are watching.
Well, I think the Christian, the Western European and the American 'Hollywood' point of view will all agree: Non-mortal violence against woman and children is more abject as mortal violence is towards other men. Thinking about this dilemma, I have to admit a can not disagree with it.
That must be BECAUSE BEING KILLED OR WOUNDED IN ACTION IS MORE GLORIOUS THAN TO LIVE ON WITH THE HUMILIATION OF BEING SEXUALLY ABUSED. Probably that is what is going on in the heart and head of Frankzett.
That is right Frankzett.
Skorra, you think exactly like I do but you can not expect somebody to start a consequent witchhunt like this:
J_A_ this is great, I had a loud laugh about your words, which is exactly what is happening in the Netherlands too.
Well spoken mickey mouse. That is the educational side of it.
That is right and I was criticised for that myself. With a reason.
I think I am suffering from the same internal struggles as Frankzett does: I am obsessed with historical warfare but I don't like violence. I don't like to be reminded of the true horrific face of war.
This all reminds me of another thread called The Pendle Witch Child AD1580 posted by kursktiger:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18943&p=204452&hilit=torture#p204452
I never forgot k.b.'s reply:
Talking about where is the limit, I wonder: were would the webmasters and moderators of Benno's Forum draw the line?
If I would post a sculpture of a little child being beaten to death by a drunk soldier, will it be removed from the forum?
If I show a close up picture in the Gallery of a miniature Wehrmacht soldier raping a skin-over-bone Jewish concentration camp prisoner from behind, would it be removed? Would German and Austrian forum members be offended by such an image? Or the Jewish ones?
Have there been any pictures removed at all for ethical reasons at Benno's in the past?
Remco, Benno, Peter, Paul and Kekso, I would like to hear your honest opinion on this!
And yes, all I am writing here is SERIOUS.
NO IRONY AND CYNISM PLEASE
This is all about the core, the basic backbone of what our sick, childish but very interesting hobby or profession is all about.
First of all I have to thank Frankzett for starting this discussion.
I was very surprised to read your words Frankzett. They puzzled me. My first reaction was exactly the same as Skorra's, but my second thought was: Frankzett is just sharing his EMOTIONS with us. Which is a gentle thing to do and I support you in that all the way. You made me very curious because you seem to draw a line for yourself: if I understand you well, mutilation of male humans on the battlefield is very unpleasant but still on the safe side of that line. Depicting Hitlers army in full glory in action at the battlefield is on the safe side too. But non-explicit sexual violence is at the wrong side. We talk about emotions, not about ethics, let that be clear. So I wonder: is that only your personal emotional reaction just like you say? Or are your own wife and kids (if you have any) playing a part in this in your sub-conscious? Would you have felt the same ten or twenty years ago when you were a young (and probably wilder) man with less responsibilities in life?
I am asking myself: what is more terrible: mutilating another man in battle just because you get payed for it as a mercenary, or raping a defenseless woman and knocking her unconscious when her children are watching.
Well, I think the Christian, the Western European and the American 'Hollywood' point of view will all agree: Non-mortal violence against woman and children is more abject as mortal violence is towards other men. Thinking about this dilemma, I have to admit a can not disagree with it.
That must be BECAUSE BEING KILLED OR WOUNDED IN ACTION IS MORE GLORIOUS THAN TO LIVE ON WITH THE HUMILIATION OF BEING SEXUALLY ABUSED. Probably that is what is going on in the heart and head of Frankzett.
Frankzett wrote:I do NOT have to justify myself for any omission
That is right Frankzett.
Skorra, you think exactly like I do but you can not expect somebody to start a consequent witchhunt like this:
SKORRA wrote: I never ever heard you about the others examples. Why not writting a letter to others manufacturers to warn them about that?
J_A_ wrote:technically there not exist politically correct military figures,except the pedestrians for rail dioramas but I have my doubts about if those figures offends someone too,like things are going nowadays everything is possible !!
J_A_ this is great, I had a loud laugh about your words, which is exactly what is happening in the Netherlands too.
mickey mouse wrote:some things are necsesary to remind people that what happend in the pat, must stay in the past.
Well spoken mickey mouse. That is the educational side of it.
mickey mouse wrote:a battlefield in the midst of the heath without wounded and deadth's is nice to see, but very unrealistic
That is right and I was criticised for that myself. With a reason.
I think I am suffering from the same internal struggles as Frankzett does: I am obsessed with historical warfare but I don't like violence. I don't like to be reminded of the true horrific face of war.
This all reminds me of another thread called The Pendle Witch Child AD1580 posted by kursktiger:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18943&p=204452&hilit=torture#p204452
I never forgot k.b.'s reply:
k.b. wrote:Sorry gents! VERY questionable taste is all I have to say about this thread!
Talking about where is the limit, I wonder: were would the webmasters and moderators of Benno's Forum draw the line?
If I would post a sculpture of a little child being beaten to death by a drunk soldier, will it be removed from the forum?
If I show a close up picture in the Gallery of a miniature Wehrmacht soldier raping a skin-over-bone Jewish concentration camp prisoner from behind, would it be removed? Would German and Austrian forum members be offended by such an image? Or the Jewish ones?
Have there been any pictures removed at all for ethical reasons at Benno's in the past?
Remco, Benno, Peter, Paul and Kekso, I would like to hear your honest opinion on this!
-
Cryns
Supporting Business- Posts: 1254
- Member since:
11 Nov 2015, 15:33
I am enjoying this thread a lot, i must say. I kind of feel like the tiny, innocent pebble starting a landslide.
But to be honest, there have been MANY tiny and not so tiny pebbles before me which had no effect at all, ain't that right? So, should I feel honoured?
Just try to not take it too serious, for even the most pacifistic 1:72 figurist has a little "PEW PEW" on his mind.
But to be honest, there have been MANY tiny and not so tiny pebbles before me which had no effect at all, ain't that right? So, should I feel honoured?
Just try to not take it too serious, for even the most pacifistic 1:72 figurist has a little "PEW PEW" on his mind.
-
andi
- Posts: 184
- Member since:
11 Jan 2011, 16:54
A single figures set comes to a very philosophical discussion.
I'm married and got 2 kids and of course this is not what I want to happen to them
Obviously, KAMAR's set is showing really hard things that effectively happened.
I don't want to blame anyone, particularly Frank, because that's not the point.
Frank reacts as he does because everybody has a feelings tolerance.
I want to say that's good Frank reacts like that and I apologize if he was offended by my opinion.
Sorry Frank!!!!
We shouldn't forget that's just a miniatures set, nothing more.
I can understand what I read from everyone here. Everyone reacts following his education, life experience and maybe throught his family life.
We won't hang Andi for that? Should we?
After that, I hope these Kamar's sets will still be sold because it's a good sculpting work and surely he didn't expect to offend anyone.
He's just working and giving fun to us and as well trying to live the best he can as we all does.
Especially us in France because of the taxes !!!!! lol! (please don't answer to that sentence, I don't want to cause war this time as I made throught my first post lol!).
And tell you what?
I think I'll surely make an order at KAMAR (Not for these sets because that's more for a diorama than wargaming) because his ranges are originals and sometimes fun.
I think we should end this discussion.
Remco, Benno, Peter, Paul and Kekso shouldn't leave their opinions because they have to be neutral for the right management of this wonderful forum.
I'm married and got 2 kids and of course this is not what I want to happen to them
Obviously, KAMAR's set is showing really hard things that effectively happened.
I don't want to blame anyone, particularly Frank, because that's not the point.
Frank reacts as he does because everybody has a feelings tolerance.
I want to say that's good Frank reacts like that and I apologize if he was offended by my opinion.
Sorry Frank!!!!
We shouldn't forget that's just a miniatures set, nothing more.
I can understand what I read from everyone here. Everyone reacts following his education, life experience and maybe throught his family life.
We won't hang Andi for that? Should we?
After that, I hope these Kamar's sets will still be sold because it's a good sculpting work and surely he didn't expect to offend anyone.
He's just working and giving fun to us and as well trying to live the best he can as we all does.
Especially us in France because of the taxes !!!!! lol! (please don't answer to that sentence, I don't want to cause war this time as I made throught my first post lol!).
And tell you what?
I think I'll surely make an order at KAMAR (Not for these sets because that's more for a diorama than wargaming) because his ranges are originals and sometimes fun.
I think we should end this discussion.
Remco, Benno, Peter, Paul and Kekso shouldn't leave their opinions because they have to be neutral for the right management of this wonderful forum.
- SKORRA
- Posts: 108
- Member since:
02 Feb 2013, 11:53
First of all I wish Andi's sets to sell well, as his sculpting is fine. 
Everyone has the right to express his own opinion and that's what Frankzett did.
I am more than sure that all of us hate violence.
The strong point here is SCORRA's words:
And by any means I don't want to offend none who participate in this thread.
Everyone has the right to express his own opinion and that's what Frankzett did.
I am more than sure that all of us hate violence.
The strong point here is SCORRA's words:
I can understand what I read from everyone here. Everyone reacts following his education, life experience and maybe throught his family life.
And by any means I don't want to offend none who participate in this thread.
-
Kostis Ornerakis
In memoriam- Posts: 1280
- Member since:
14 Feb 2016, 18:16
@ J_A_
Yes, the point is the cutural backround ...
@ Mr. Cryns
I don't cry now and I am not traumatized now.
But no, I woun't like to sculpt mutiliated soldiers on the battlefield and I don't like glorious WWII herotrash.
And yes, call it taste, call it "this is my line" indeed. It isn't any sub-conscious, it is my opinion what is suitable to show with the 72-scale. We know all, we have to stylize and convert natural details into very tiny sculptures or scenes. In this scale there is very less space for differentiation, if we look at these small things, there is the tendency that it seems tiny, cute and casual; and impressive ... because the craftmenship.
@ andi
"Pew pew" not in ancient and Viking ages, arrows are silent ... except in Hollywood movies.
Perhaps i had a very close look at your sculpts - closer than on strelets figures.
My point was not violence generally, it was
And I don't like explicit torture scenes in 1:72 at all.
Some years ago at the syposium (meeting) of the "modellfiguren online- forum" there were a discussion after a lecture of Roland Kupski about similar subjects, we - the members of that forum - had a controversial discussion with each other and for me it was a beginning to reflect what's around the figure hobby. Well, may be for some people this is ridiculous intellectual useless waste, for me it concludes a principle view, what I want, and what I am able to show with (my) figures and how does the impression of (other) figures (or artwork) cause on me, or could cause on others.
Greetings
Frank
technically there not exist politically correct military figures,except the pedestrians for rail dioramas but I have my doubts about if those figures offends someone too,like things are going nowadays everything is possible !!
Yes, the point is the cutural backround ...
@ Mr. Cryns
I don't cry now and I am not traumatized now.
You made me very curious because you seem to draw a line for yourself: if I understand you well, mutilation of male humans on the battlefield is very unpleasant but still on the safe side of that line. Depicting Hitlers army in full glory in action at the battlefield is on the safe side too. But non-explicit sexual violence is at the wrong side.
But no, I woun't like to sculpt mutiliated soldiers on the battlefield and I don't like glorious WWII herotrash.
And yes, call it taste, call it "this is my line" indeed. It isn't any sub-conscious, it is my opinion what is suitable to show with the 72-scale. We know all, we have to stylize and convert natural details into very tiny sculptures or scenes. In this scale there is very less space for differentiation, if we look at these small things, there is the tendency that it seems tiny, cute and casual; and impressive ... because the craftmenship.
@ andi
"Pew pew" not in ancient and Viking ages, arrows are silent ... except in Hollywood movies.
But to be honest, there have been MANY tiny and not so tiny pebbles before me which had no effect at all, ain't that right? So, should I feel honoured?
Perhaps
i had a very close look at your sculpts - closer than on strelets figures. My point was not violence generally, it was
sexual violation and torture
And I don't like explicit torture scenes in 1:72 at all.
Some years ago at the syposium (meeting) of the "modellfiguren online- forum" there were a discussion after a lecture of Roland Kupski about similar subjects, we - the members of that forum - had a controversial discussion with each other and for me it was a beginning to reflect what's around the figure hobby. Well, may be for some people this is ridiculous intellectual useless waste, for me it concludes a principle view, what I want, and what I am able to show with (my) figures and how does the impression of (other) figures (or artwork) cause on me, or could cause on others.
Greetings
Frank
- Frankzett
- Posts: 333
- Member since:
29 Mar 2010, 20:25
Frankzett wrote:
@ andi
My point was not violence generally, it was "sexual violation and torture"
And I don't like explicit torture scenes in 1:72 at all.
Ok, I got it! It's a rather conflicting point of view, but I can accept that. Luckily i did not release a raping scene, just some plundering vikings with captives
-
andi
- Posts: 184
- Member since:
11 Jan 2011, 16:54
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or become a supporting member
It´s really an interesting discussion. At first: I appreciate very the KAMAR-figures and have ordered some of them very recently.
I am against all tries to "white-wash"-history with censorship. The history of mankind was and is still a long list of cruelity, murdering and violence. History wasn´t never and isn´t still only peace and peaceful developments.
To prohibit all kind of visualisations of this aspect of mankind don´t stop any of these violent aspects of our civilizatiion. Not the image or an figure, but more our thinking, talking and acting can help to reduce this aspect of mankind/ to understand it and us better - but I am afraid that we could never eliminate totally all kind of violence.
To visualize former historical events like a plundering of a village can help us to understand these periods better and ourself too. An experience which I have made many time especially with children above 6 years which understand via figures still better and easier history and the differencies of the past to the present. Some parents are still more a problem who are "cocooning-take carer" which don´t dare to confront and to talk with their childrens about the unpleasent aspects of mankind - it´s absolutly their personal right, but not more than this, my personal view!
An big exception in miniature are personally for me all events which are to close to contemporary history when the peoble are still living who have suffered - so no concentration-camps, no Tchetchenia or Syria. Peoble may be hurt or forced easily to their traumata from too unconsious or heroic miniatures. So I am very critical to some new figure-productions in this forum which I found personally quite ignorant - I have personally many problems with these productions but I won´t never declare a censorship - and still more important, I won´t never accusing the producer to be an admirer of violence.
It´s not more than my personal view....
I am against all tries to "white-wash"-history with censorship. The history of mankind was and is still a long list of cruelity, murdering and violence. History wasn´t never and isn´t still only peace and peaceful developments.
To prohibit all kind of visualisations of this aspect of mankind don´t stop any of these violent aspects of our civilizatiion. Not the image or an figure, but more our thinking, talking and acting can help to reduce this aspect of mankind/ to understand it and us better - but I am afraid that we could never eliminate totally all kind of violence.
To visualize former historical events like a plundering of a village can help us to understand these periods better and ourself too. An experience which I have made many time especially with children above 6 years which understand via figures still better and easier history and the differencies of the past to the present. Some parents are still more a problem who are "cocooning-take carer" which don´t dare to confront and to talk with their childrens about the unpleasent aspects of mankind - it´s absolutly their personal right, but not more than this, my personal view!
An big exception in miniature are personally for me all events which are to close to contemporary history when the peoble are still living who have suffered - so no concentration-camps, no Tchetchenia or Syria. Peoble may be hurt or forced easily to their traumata from too unconsious or heroic miniatures. So I am very critical to some new figure-productions in this forum which I found personally quite ignorant - I have personally many problems with these productions but I won´t never declare a censorship - and still more important, I won´t never accusing the producer to be an admirer of violence.
It´s not more than my personal view....
-
sansovino
- Posts: 794
- Member since:
27 Mar 2014, 21:42
-
Alex
- Supporting Member (Gold)
- Posts: 1871
- Member since:
26 Feb 2008, 14:54
I also like this historically realistic set.
"Violence"? It's personal impresson of somebody:
Text means: "Vikings are saving women and values from the burning buildings, because all the men in the village had died suddenly."
"Violence"? It's personal impresson of somebody:
Text means: "Vikings are saving women and values from the burning buildings, because all the men in the village had died suddenly."
-
MicroWorld
- Posts: 87
- Member since:
13 Sep 2014, 09:34
23 posts
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