Miniatures Talk

Suggestions for the Macabees

Posted by Howlin on 08 Dec 2021, 22:55

As Hanukkah just passed I am inspired by the battle descriptions of the Macabees, I wonder what their armor would have looked like, and what sets would be the best to use, or modify to get such results.



Any suggestions?

Thank you.
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Howlin  United States of America
 
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Posted by Xantippos on 26 Aug 2022, 15:06

This is a old post, but interesting ;) . Sadly there is only two sets of Hebrews, one made by LW, that now must be hard to find and the normal one by Caesar. Seems there is very few information. In my opinion, using both sets and maybe doing some slight modification would do the job.
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Posted by Howlin on 27 Aug 2022, 18:30

I think I can also use some of these new ancient phalanx sets modified from linear A
They would have captured armor from their enemies. (from my understanding of how it went)

I think the Caesar set, may be a bit too far back in history, and would have had better equipment at the time to be a full army. but still good poses to mix in!

There is also linear A judea set for more civilian poses. And in resin a European company makes the Ark of the Covenant and four carriers, and another resin company makes another ancient Israel type ruler set. I do not have any resin minis I know of, but these are tempting to get too.

thanks,
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Posted by Misteredd on 28 Aug 2022, 09:23

The Macabees will look quite hellenistic. Their neighbors were hellenistic phoenicians, seleucians or ptolemaic egypt. I suppose to use the Linear B Mithridatic warriors, those Carthaginians made by Zvezda and Hat and so on. Caesar set is set 600 years before.
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Posted by Xantippos on 30 Aug 2022, 07:45

Yes, they might be wearing some more modern armour, and might have some certain hellenization, at least from captured weapons, as being basically rebels. But considering their fanaticisim, and hatred of the hellenic ways, I would say they would try deliberately to avoid wearing hellenized armour. Weapons surely yes, and maybe some shields, but if they could, I bet they would avoid wearing greek helmets, and fighting against the Seleucids and their auxiliaries, they would also make a point to be easily distinctive while in battle.

I have found a few images of Jewish soldiers of roughly the time;

Image

Image

Image

Image

Although some are from fan made modifications of a videogame, the amount of research into this is usually very very good, usually better than the miniature manufacturers!

I would say that the Caesar soldiers, changing weapons, maybe adding some armour would be ideal, if at least as light skirmishers or rebelious rabble.
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Posted by Misteredd on 31 Aug 2022, 09:44

Tunica and some weapon would be the thing.
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Posted by Howlin on 02 Sep 2022, 05:59

nice,.. I have many minis like this already (mostly from linear A) that just need some light touches and right paint scheme to work.
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Posted by Frankzett on 02 Sep 2022, 14:49

First, no Magen David i.e. the six-pionted star, with the whole figure. It is a symbol which appears much later in modern times. The Maccabees were kings in hellenistic times, so we can assume they had hellenistic status symbols and hellenistic fashion. I think the type of the thureophoroi infantry was common in this time. And not to forget the influence of the arising roman style Infantry, with chain mail armour. In the case of the eastern hellenistic kingdoms, - I think- most likely in combination with hellenistic helmets (I mean no italic or gaul style helmets like the Montefortino type).
Not to forget there were the battle of Pydna 168 BC, shortly after the Carthagian war, the last great appearence of the Macedon phalanx against the Roman cohorts and manipels - the Macedons were slaughtered.

The drawing of Angus McBride is not bad, but where are the swords? We see some kind of a gaul sword hilt with the galatian soldier (B), but the others?? We can assume that hellenistic types of swords were common before the Roman engagements in the east.
About the helmets; Angus McBride is far from defined correct patterns, a lot of drawings are pure fantasy style. There are enough archaeological finds of hellenistic helmets you can find in the WWW to see what could be historical correct.
An interesting point would be the armour with the defined muscles - like a nude hellenistic sculpture; would it be conceivable with the religious customs (ban of pictures of humans) of the Jews in that times, when the temple cult was reestablished in the new Kingdom?

Greetings
Frank
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Posted by Howlin on 02 Sep 2022, 21:45

great insights, thanks, I would use a muscle armor pose. I think that commandment is more about not bowing down to idols and worshiping them rather than not emulating anything on earth. Even the Ark of the Covenant and menorah as dictated in design has renderings of almond flowers, and cherubim, and apparently the pomegranate was an important symbolic fruit depicted.


thankfuly so much of the helenistic stuff is out there, with some green stuff practice I could make them a little unique.
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