Miniatures Talk

How rare is rare, and how abundant are the abundant

Posted by Howlin on 26 Mar 2021, 06:18

I have been wondering, how many sets do producers tend to make when making a series of these minis. 50,000? 100,000? A million or tens of millions?

Wondering how big this hobby is and how many sets are typically made in a population of billions.

Obviously this would have a lot to do with each producer and the time frame they were made in.
Atlantic being one of the first and rarer products, but I bet a lot of them were thrown away when kids went to college in ages before the internet to resell things easily.

Some sets from big producers like Zvezda seem really rare (take the scorpion and catapult) and other sets seem to have endless supplies like the battering ram, is it just the popularity of catapults that sold more than the rams?

Makes me think about the future growth of the hobby as many retired sets covered big grounds yet as tabletop wargaming has become ever more popular (at least from my perspective) will either have to be re-released, or developed by new producers or get too costly for demand to make war gaming an attractive thing.

Just some ponderin's.
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Posted by fuhrman on 26 Mar 2021, 13:35

Excellent question. From time to time I've found myself missing out on kits/figure sets I'd like to get due to procrastinating on the purchase. How many DO they produce - and how do they decide?
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Posted by Michael Robert on 26 Mar 2021, 14:41

Hello Howlin,

Good question. Actually, a few years ago Streletz gave a detailed answer on their blog.
Basically, they were explaining that to them (I quote from memory) a good set sells in the 3000 et 5000, not more (unpopular sets sell much less!). We all know that sales for former Airfix, Matchbox, Atlantic, ESCI were much higher considering that at the time they were toys and sold in many shops everywhere. Today, Streletz considers to be a supplier to a niche market for "collectors". This is also a reason not to invest in costly stainless steel moulds but in low cost versions which have limited durability.
Maybe somebody can dig out the exact Streletz comments from their site - this dates from some years.
Zvezda has a high quality production with stainless steel moulds. They could produce as many as they want - in the tens of thousands. They don't - their market strategy many people don't quite understand.
Interesting discussion
Greetings Michael
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Posted by Minuteman on 26 Mar 2021, 20:15

A bit of a tangent this, but.....

I am often intrigued to know how many, many more plastic models of, say, a German Tiger I of WW2 have been produced compared with the circa 1500 actual vehicles that the Germans produced before ceasing production in 1944. I would not be at all surprised if the ratio of models to actuals is something like 100:1, or even higher. The same applies to many other 'iconic' vehicles, including the Jadgpanther (fewer than 500 built) and the Tiger II.

As for Zvezda and their steel moulds: Well, I am thankful, as I continue to purchase their re-issues with enthusiasm.
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Posted by Howlin on 26 Mar 2021, 22:26

Wow, that's even fewer than I thought for such a big producer like streletz. I guess those couple sets I want but do not really need I should not wait too long for. (roman senate)

it is odd Zvezda would even stop making them if they are selling. I know many would like a reissue of the the catapults set for sure. I am pretty happy to see they redid the trebuchet model as that was pretty rare when I first started collecting. They make such great minis.
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Posted by Wiking on 26 Mar 2021, 23:23

I know nothing of the output of figures.
But if a figure set is molded in steel you just have to wait several (10 !) years. Someon will use this mold again.
My experience with Esci italian tanks.
Despite the mold is lost (Airfix Brit. Soldier WWII) or total damaged.

The only steel mold set (for me) who get a bit of rarety is the Atlantic Chinese revolution set.
Several different Atlantic sets are on ebay and for resonable prices available.

No surprise that Strelez sell only 3000 till 5000 boxes of a good running set.
Have you ever been in a hobby shop,
your lokal hobby shop and compare only the box (eye catcher) from Steletz to one of the big players like Revell, Zvezda, Italeri?
Small, very soft, not so nice picture.
For a beginner, a person who take one box as a gift or for a only one time buyer ...

Yes, a niche producer.
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Posted by Howlin on 27 Mar 2021, 04:24

my local hobby shop does not carry any 1/72 ancient accept for things they might have gotten in lot. They told me they do not sell well. Seems most want 28mm. but I find I can get a much larger army with a couple boxes of 1/72 for the price of 1 28mm set so I went that route.

also, I do not think they actually put the pictures of the contents on the box.... so you really got to know what it is your buying. Or have a nice shop that will open things for you and reseal
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Posted by Bluefalchion on 27 Mar 2021, 04:38

Howlin wrote:my local hobby shop does not carry any 1/72 ancient accept for things they might have gotten in lot. They told me they do not sell well. Seems most want 28mm. but I find I can get a much larger army with a couple boxes of 1/72 for the price of 1 28mm set so I went that route.

also, I do not think they actually put the pictures of the contents on the box.... so you really got to know what it is your buying. Or have a nice shop that will open things for you and reseal


Plasticsoldierreview.com is an outstanding reference for plastic soldier kits in this scale, and there is the added benefit that the site is making no attempt to sell any figures.
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Posted by Xantippos on 18 Jul 2021, 15:11

Very interesting ;) . Sadly, it is a hobby dying out. During this pandemic, a toyshop nearby that one could still buy Revell soldiers closed down. Now in Malta, there are only 3 shops where you can buy 1/72 soldiers, and just one sells something other than Italeri/Revell.
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Posted by Howlin on 22 Jul 2021, 00:31

yes that site is great and largely the reason I have such a collection now.
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Posted by Haron on 22 Jul 2021, 05:49

1000-1500. About 5% more.
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Posted by Bluefalchion on 22 Jul 2021, 17:21

Haron wrote:1000-1500. About 5% more.


What does this mean?
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Posted by zulu`s 1000`s of em on 22 Jul 2021, 17:38

About 5% of sets sell more than 1500 sets 95% sell less than 1500 sets. Now my interpretation of the market , once in the 1980 early 90s I bought every set that came to market, all periods ,everything . By about 2000 I started to be more selective , Now I buy Zulu war, WW2 desert 1940/43 and NWE 44/45 , and the occasional set outside of those that I really fancy painting . I suspect that is true of many ,that we are more selective than we once were, and quality is more important than ever.
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Posted by Xantippos on 25 Jul 2021, 08:24

I started collecting big in early 2000s, basically buying ancients that before never existed, or if they did, were not available in model shops (until then, I only had Praetorians and Anglosaxons, and only other Revell sets were available sometimes). Of WW2 I had plenty, but more or less all factions well represented.

I went on increasing buying all new interesting sets, it was a golden era to every time visiting the shop, new sets coming :) . Until I started collecting action figures later, and new interesting soldiers stopped appearing (in my opinion).

Later thanks to my father I had a Napoleonic surge, and been buying sparsely sets since then. The question is, that of ancients, I nearly have all sets that I like, and 95 % of the different armies (I basically lack other versions of the same Greeks, Celts, etc).

The question is that the more you have, the more everything seems like it, and much of the new releases seems to similar to others, and all major topics are covered. Now basically I am lacking some new WW2 sets, but in about 10-15 sets I would have more or less everything I am truly interested in.
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Posted by Chariobaude on 25 Jul 2021, 21:45

if 1500 sets sold is a good number, that seems ridiculous to me ... What is the business plan of a modelling company? it's hardly craftsmanship ... I understand better the deficient marketing, the very light digital presence (no judgment, just an observation!). I always wondered what prevented a good computer designer with a little culture and a good 3D printer from entering the game. Now I get it!
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Posted by zulu`s 1000`s of em on 25 Jul 2021, 21:54

CAD is the future, and it is already happening ,Germania figures for one , cad design then 3D printed, it is only a matter of time before we see the process being adapted for injection moulded plastic .
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Posted by Beano Boy on 26 Jul 2021, 02:52

The ZEVEZDA large boxed sets in my collection are very rare now because the 'Power that be', stopped production of them a few uneventful years ago. BB
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Posted by Xantippos on 26 Jul 2021, 07:26

In theory, 3d printers will phase out any plastic item, and miniature soldiers one of the easiest, being a solid piece of unpainted plastic. But in 1/72 is something very very small, and 3d printers at this rate, they will still need about 20 years to get them precise, cheap and convenient, even for the most fanatic fans.

About Zvezda is very curious. Maybe a fire broke out and they lost the moulds! or maybe they want everybody to buy their art of tactic sets, which they take much more profit on.
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Posted by Sho on 28 Jul 2021, 10:34

My best selling and oldest set - Murats - are sold 90 times.
During this time the set was remoulded at least 4 times.
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Posted by Howlin on 29 Jul 2021, 07:31

Totally agree, 3d prints are cool and have so much potential but as they are now can't come close to a injection molded mini. They do work great for buildings and other things though.


I think ZVEZDA still has its molds because recently released the trebuchet again and now it can be a fraction of the price it once was seen go for on ebay. Is it a matter of time before they do the same with the siege tower and catapult sets?

well I sure hope so! may hurt "investments" but they have the ability to really expand upon and reach broad markets.
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