Miniatures Talk

Stuka

Posted by Ochoin on 25 Jun 2018, 01:42

Can I ask a technical question?

For my N**i forces, I'd like to field a Stuka. The Germans are designed for late war NW Europe. Ie '44-'45. I believe they may have been still used against the Soviets at that time but I can't find anything with regards to the British and American front.

I know the Alllies ruled the skies by then and N**i resources were at a minimum thanks to the successful air war conducted by Bomber Harris etc.

So how ridiculous would it be to include a Stuka in my N**i force?

Donald
Last edited by Avatar on 25 Jun 2018, 15:50, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: politically incorrect word changed
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Ochoin  Scotland
 
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Posted by Zed1 on 25 Jun 2018, 21:41

Well - Harris' city bombing were less effective as allied propaganda always told. Ever wondered about German industry recovering so miraculously fast after WW2? Okay, different story, I know.

Apart from fuel shortage and other disadvantages, you can put Stukas into your army. But you must only field them during nighttime. No joke - as slow flying bombers were too vulnerable under dayflight conditions, German Luftwaffe formed so called 'Nachtschlachtgruppen'. Sorties were flown under the cover of night, when the relative slow speed was an advantage for the Stukas (same effect that worked for the Russian Nightwitches - it's hard for a fast fighter to take down a slow plane when it's pitch black outside).
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Zed1  Germany
 
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Posted by Ochoin on 25 Jun 2018, 22:05

Thanks, Zed.

Unfortunately I don't fight wargames at night in the pitch dark....I couldn't see the figures!
So either park the Stuka (a lovely model, given to me by my son) or bend history.

We'll have to disagree about the bombing campaign. The Marshall plan stilled my wonderment on the question you pose.

donald
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Ochoin  Scotland
 
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Posted by Zed1 on 26 Jun 2018, 00:04

Well - for daytime you should then better use Fw190 fighterbombers. That's more accurate. :mrgreen:
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Zed1  Germany
 
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Posted by huib on 26 Jun 2018, 09:20

Yes, Zed is right. No Stuka's on the Western Front in 1944-1945, but FW 190's. In the last months of the war also Me 262 and Arado 234 jetplanes were used as fighterbombers in NW Europe, but only in very limited numbers.

But for tactical bombing also bigger planes were used, such as the Me 410, Ju 88 and Ju 188, although sparsely and often with heavy losses as a result of allied air superiority.

So, you have some choice to pick from. For wargaming purposes however using the FW 190 would be a simple, adequate and historically correct solution.
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huib  Netherlands
 
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Posted by Ochoin on 26 Jun 2018, 22:09

I appreciate the replies.

dpnald
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Ochoin  Scotland
 
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Posted by Graeme on 06 Jul 2018, 12:44

Ochoin wrote:a lovely model, given to me by my son


That's a good reason for bending history though.
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Graeme  Australia
 
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Posted by Ochoin on 06 Jul 2018, 13:48

It didn't look too out of place on the table.
I sent these photos to my boy (he's working in Barcaldine now):

Image

Image

donald
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Ochoin  Scotland
 
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Posted by guilhem on 13 Jul 2018, 10:51

1940 german luffwaffe have the superiority
1941 again
1942 again
you can used stuka and all german planes
1943 in USSR you can find stuka against tank with 2 37mm gun.
1944 the german luffwaffe is down... you can't see bombers, only one fighter Me 109.
guilhem  France
 
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Posted by zirrian on 07 Oct 2018, 08:34

Why censor N**i?
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zirrian  Hungary
 
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Posted by Avatar on 07 Oct 2018, 09:22

zirrian wrote:Why censor N**i?

There were complaints of the use of the word
Avatar  Switzerland

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Posted by zirrian on 08 Oct 2018, 21:49

Avatar wrote:There were complaints of the use of the word

Image
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Posted by Ochoin on 12 Oct 2018, 13:50

I was just thinking about dive bombers like the Stuka.
They had sirens. How terrifying were these? Would some sort of drop in morale be appropriate for misses?

donald
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Ochoin  Scotland
 
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Posted by Wiking on 12 Oct 2018, 18:44

Ochion wrote:
They had sirens. How terrifying were these?

At first for the one who interests.
A StuKa is not a special plane. Nor the Ju 87. The Ju 87 is developed for StuKa.
StuKa is a shortening of the German word Sturzkampf, dive bombing.
That means that the pilot directed his plan during the dive to his chosen target.
During that time the sirens ( Jericho- Gerät, Jericho- Trompete, Jericho-trumpet are working with 130dB. Comparison: car horn 110dB, Disco 120 dB. Be in mind the sound intensity is exponentially. )

I read that the sirens added to the Ju 87 dive bomber by doing a dive bombing attack was till the end of the war effective on the eastern front.

It was something like forward artillery. The sirens added an very psychological effect.
A (Kette) four plane (Ju87) in a row roll over her wing and do dive bombing attack with her distinctive sound, release there bombs and for example only two hit! If you see your comrade, tank to the left and to the right is suddenly gone, the wounded scream ! If you really think I got luck, they miss me? Or do you think. Next time me for sure, back?

A tactic was four plane (Ju 87) do the dive bombing attack. The first release his bomb, the second, the third. All exploded. But during the run in of the fourth bomb the German troops start there attack to the enemy strong point. All are dug in for the awaiting of the explosion of the four bomb.
But they did not. It was a cement bomb. The enemy do not know that this was simply a dummy.

I speak always of well trained pilots! As always the effectiveness of a weapon depends if a newbie or a well trained use it. If it work !

There are a lot of pilots who get silly due to the g force he get all over the dive time. The brain get no new, enough blood. Just seconds. But with each mission on and on. This is by far not so well known.

Ochion wrote:
Would some sort of drop in morale be appropriate for misses?

As an example:
During the latest real modern war (for me)
the Argentine air force (FAA) do a lot of misses, hits who not exploded in ships.
Was this a drop of moral ? In other words do they stop bombing?
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Wiking  Germany
 
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Posted by FredG on 12 Oct 2018, 19:39

Being hit by a bomb sized lump of cement can ruin your day too.

I would think that morale would definitely be low. If the Stukas are coming in the panzers will follow. It's time to get the h**l out of there.
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FredG  United Kingdom
 
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Posted by Ochoin on 12 Oct 2018, 22:35

Thanks for the replies. My specific wargame rules for aerial attack mean often the bomb misses the target but I will consider if I should further dice for a drop in combat effectiveness.

You can't include everything in rules (& as we know, there are some aspects we do not want to include: the long lines of refugees in 1940 who were also a target) but morale is perhaps more important than "killing" the little plastic & metal figures.

donald
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Ochoin  Scotland
 
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