body Sculpture

[stenfalk]

Alex, now i have to ask again. I understood you correctly the use of oil or vaseline only makes sense when working with GS and similar materials? Or do you recommend this medium also for working with Magic Sculpt?

If you have already spoken about, i'm sorry. Then I did not read or mistranslated...

[Alex]

I use a grease (Vaseline or hand cream) for the tool with all the materials.

[Cryns]

how is the process of drying? I mean how you dry your green stuff figure? or it gets dry after a determined time at the outdoor air ? I have been making figures in 1/72 with the typical non toxic modeling clay

Alex: although I called this topic started by you a 'masterclass' since you are the master and we are your class, we must not forget Benno's Forum is for experienced and beginning hobbyists and professionals all together. J_A_ is asking us a very basic question that has been asked to me and to us before. The question is so basic we forget to realise how important these questions are.

These questions make the difference between deciding to start sculpting or decide not to do it because it all seems to difficult and unknown.

I remember a post by Emperor who wrote:

I have one big question about sculpting...Everybody who writes about sculpting post phases of sculpting, but there is very little posts on subject ,,how properly to use green stuff and other sculpting materials and clays...'' I bought green stuff twice in past 5 years, and I can say that it is very problematic to work with it when you don't know how to use it... It is sticky and if it isn't used properly it doesn't give the good result...So since we all are well informed in process of sculpting I think it will be really good to have some tutorial about working with green stuff and other materials such as super sculpey or miliput...For example how much it takes to dry and what substances to use to keep sculpting tool wet and clean and to have green stuff not stick on tools and to proper make details...

So J_A_ I try to give the most basic information here:

PUTTY
Basically there are two types of putty:

1) TWO COMPONENT SELF HARDENING PUTTY
2) ONE COMPONENT THERMO HARDENING PUTTY (hardening at 125 degrees Celcius in oven)

TWO COMPONENT SELF HARDENING PUTTY
Like Milliput, Green Stuff, Magic Sculp and Modelayt.
These are the ones used most and recommended by Alex.
These are not like natural riverclay at all.
But some are mixable with water, just like riverclay.
Self hardening means: it does not dry by air as long as both components are kept separate. If unpacked and exposed to air, it will take weeks or years to dry completely.
But as soon as two components are mixed together by kneading it starts to HARDEN by itself. So it DOES NOT DRY, but HARDENS in a chemical way.
The better you knead two components together, the better it hardens.
I think with ratio 1:1 of each component hardening goes quickest which is about one to two hours. During these hours its getting harder and harder all the time. So you can not lay down your sculpting work and continue half an hour later. It will be too hard then.
Except when you knead new portions of putty every time again before continuation.
Planning two hours without being disturbed is important. Do not start sculpting half an hour before dinner is ready, your kids are coming home or your favourite TV show is starting! AND DO NOT ANSWER YOUR PHONE.
Kneading small amounts of putty is important too so you don't have to throw away quantities of mixed component time after time.

Green Stuff and Magic Sculpt are most common two component putties.
But there is a great difference between them.
GREEN STUFF is NOT WATERSOLUBLE and NOT SANDABLE, FILABLE OR SCRAPABLE since its micro feebre structure is like stickey, plastic micro hair. You can cut it with a model knive or sand it with a file or electric tool buth then it roughens and looks like this:

It can be polished wit an electric tool again but thats difficult and a lot of work.
So working with Green Stuff means: what you apply to your body does not never come off again. With the result many bodies become TOO FAT and HEAVY.


You can see in the picture: Green Stuff nowadays is sold in ratio 2:3 for blue:green components. Because more green and lesser blue part is recommended by professionals.

After making a copper wire body frame, you only need 3 tools to sculpt a complete figure: a RUBBER BRUSH, type 'hard', size 0. Rubber is very smooth so it does not stick to the Green Stuff like iron tools do. You have to order a set of 5 rubber brushes on the internet. The Games Workshop does not sell them and artist shops usually sell them in size 5 which is for much larger clay sculpting.
The other tools are a knive and a pin (needle) for making tiny incisions like fingers an toes or sculpting ears, eyes and hair.

If Green Stuff sticks to your fingers too much, use oil or chalcum powder on your fingertips. If it sticks to your tools, use water, vaseline grease or olive oil.
If the mixture is not soft enough, add more green component and use less blue component.

and what material would be better to start for the first time modelling figures in 1/72?

J_A_ since you have experience with riverclay or modelclay, which is watersoluble, and you are not aiming at professional results at this moment I recomment you to use Magic Sulpt for making your first sculpts.
Alex may not agree with me.
But there is three advantages compared to Green Stuff:

MAGIC SCULPT is WATERSOLUBLE so you can use it like you used riverclay.
Using a tiny bit of water makes it possible to make its surface very soft and smooth by using your fingertip, a wet hairy brush, a dry rubber brush or a wet iron tool.
And it is SCRAPABLE, SANDABLE and FILABLE so you have endless opportunities to remove mistakes and excessive putty and polish the putty after it has been hardened.
Finally is does not stick to your tools that much so you do NOT NEED A RUBBER BRUSH or use lots of water or oil as a parting agent.
Here you can see my first ettempt in Magic Sculpt:



Also now 3 tools were enough to make its basic sculpt:



In stead of the rubber brush I use a dentist tool. But these tools are often made by modellers themselves using bamboo wood or steel which must be sanded and polished with a layer of laquer or super glue.
When using Magic Sculpt the knive gets a second function: its perfect as a scraper for scraping off excessive putty after hardening.

Then Magic Sulpt mix is not soft enough, use more of the soft, white-grey component and less of the darker grey hard component. Or add some water to your mixture.

Much more information can be found in this thread:
http://216.243.142.147/viewtopic.php?f= ... iew=unread

[Cryns]

Alex, now i have to ask again. I understood you correctly the use of oil or vaseline only makes sense when working with GS and similar materials? Or do you recommend this medium also for working with Magic Sculpt?

If you have already spoken about, i'm sorry. Then I did not read or mistranslated...

Stenfalk, don't be afraid to ask a question twice
That is what school is like.
Only bad or tired teachers can not live with same questions twice.
Alex is not any of both.

In fact your question was my question too.
Thanks for asking and Alex thanks for answering.
So from now on we start using vaseline or oil for Magic Sculpt too and see what happens.

In an earlyer mail I thought Alex was RECOMMENDING olive oil and telling us to use NO VASELINE.

But because of various kinds of oil - I prefer olive ..

But from this post I understand the opposite:

Now that you have started to use oil, and I'm sure that soon will pass to use a grease: the type of petroleum jelly or cream ... I'm looking forward to it.

So this is exactly why we must ask all questions twice to our Russian master.

Alex, do we have to use olive oil or vaseline cream?
And: What do you mean by:

petroleum jelly

???

Is petroleum jelly the same as vaseline grease cream for human body treatment?

The physical basis for this is very simple: our mix considerably denser than oil and, because the second layer adheres quite well to the previous one with overlaying the oil is pressed out of the compound.

Right So I was wrong. Oil does NOT WEAKEN and does NOT SOLVE Green Stuff and Brown Stuff. Is that correct?

eliminate brown stuff - assistant is a bad material, as it contains small grains of sand or a pigment grains.

I instantly switched back to Green Stuff last night and started all over again making a new copper wire body frame using SINGLE COPPER WIRE ARMS so it will be possible to FLATTEN the ends into flat HAND BASES.
Ratio is 2:1 GS:MS

take a picture for me of the lamp, under which you are working.

I always use two lamps: top light and (since I am left hand sculptor and painter) a right side light to fill in shadows created by the toplight.



The toplight is part of the styling of our living room furniture. So my wife will not allow me to replace it by a proper studio light. Its hight position can be adjusted.
Inside I have a LED light creating white strong light:

The side light is a Halogen Lamp. Its direction can be adjusted.


Tonight I will sculpt the body surface using GS and MS mix and vaseline grease.

[Alex]

Mr. Cryns -Thank you answer in great detail. And I am glad that for those who are starting - this topic becomes useful. And thanks for the link - it to be a good tutorial.
As for the material to get started - I think for the novice sculptor's better to start correctly picking the material. Ie do better blend or choose green stuff as bad stuff glued to the frame (that is from the Magick sculpt) may discourage novice sculptor to continue the experiments.
Oh ... hard for me to write a long letter .. but oh well ..

Regarding oil - any oil works well. You can choose the one that you personally prefer the taste and smell. I used to choose the olive oil. And the fact that now I prefer the type of grease vaseline, hand cream - this is not due to the technology and the organization of work. - You're not upset the desktop jar of oil, where dunks brush? And I'm upset. Now I use a cream in a tube ...
n this topic we discuss technology. So I asked you about the lamp. I would give this advice, unless of course your girl- friend will not mind .. I advise you to make a small basket of wire (as is the case with a bottle of champagne) and attach sometimes gallogenny light from above. There is very hot and the figure placed in the basket, significantly faster gaining strength, you can significantly accelerate the process of drying the mixture.
I still have a few of these tips, but they should be applied carefully so as not to harm the people around in your house ..

[J_A_]

Mr.Cryns really grateful with you for this valuable information that you share with me in a selflessly way

Im reading it and I will try to put it in practice

thanks again and regards

[Kostis Ornerakis]

Mr. Cryns,
You are an asset for the forum, if one search the posts you participate will find many usefull tutorials either with your techniques or your questions.

[Cryns]

do better blend or choose green stuff as bad stuff glued to the frame (that is from the Magick sculpt) may discourage novice sculptor to continue the experiments.

That is also true. You have a point here.

make a small basket of wire (as is the case with a bottle of champagne) and attach sometimes gallogenny light from above. There is very hot and the figure placed in the basket, significantly faster gaining strength, you can significantly accelerate the process of drying the mixture.

Right.
Seems like that is still no drying proces but the themperature is increasing the chemical hardening proces.
So it is like thermo hardening too?

I still have a few of these tips, but they should be applied carefully so as not to harm the people around in your house

My wife gave permission
Please let us hear the other tips.

Last nights work:

GS-MS ratio 1:1 to make the body surface.
I applied a thin layer on the legs WITH NO USE OF OIL OR GREASE and look what happened:

It fell off again.
Was it the oil still present on the hardened under layer of GS-MS ratio 3:1?
I never had this problem before, only when applying putty on the copper wire.
I think my mix fell off by pushing and rubbing the putty layer with a rubber brush.
This brush was not greased so the resistant of the rubbing rubber was as strong as the resistant of the rubbing putty layers.

But now comes the grease. I choose Vaseline transparent hand cream that I used as parting agent for making rubber molds.
And wonder! It helped. This was the result:



I think the putty layers sticked together because there was no resistance with the rubber brush anymore.





But I had problems with the head, face and especially beard.



The hair, beard and moustache are worked to intensively with rubber brush, knive and pin so that it finally fell of the hardened centre sphere.



What do you advice Alex?
How do I keep facial putty layers from falling off?
How do you secure them?
Do you apply the face skin first and the hair and beard later?
Or do you sculpt it all at the same time like I did in this example?
I think I secure it with super glue before it stays behind in my mold.

[Peter]

I think this is pure horror! Don't forget that also children are watching this forum!

[MABO]

It would be horror if I started sculping...

[Frankzett]

Well I sculpt with MS + GS too; I never use vaseline or oil but -that won't be appetizing for some people now - I only use spit with the tools and with the simple brush. With the latter, saturated with spit, I smooth the surface. I never had adesive problems on hardened putty. On the other hand, I have to clean the tools after sculting with dish soap.

With this zoom, this raw look of the bodies let me guess the working muscles under the skin. And I think it works very good with your style of painting.

Greetings
Frank

[Cryns]

I think this is pure horror! Don't forget that also children are watching this forum!

Oh Peter you are such a great didactician! Your words are realy inspiring and motivating. You should become a teacher. Let your sunlight shine over the Belgian children.

if I started sculping

You are welcome!

Thanks for your input Frankzett, you know it is appreciated a lot by me. I was already wondering how you do the sculpting. For that reason I studied your figures again, especially the bodies of your rowers. What I like about them is the slim, realistic proportions: thin arms and legs compared to many plastic figures.

With this zoom, this raw look of the bodies let me guess the working muscles under the skin.

After every figure I sculpt I decide to stop exaggerating the muscles and make it more easy, simple and realistic at the same time. But with every new one I loose myself in doing it again. Ancient reliefs like these are my source and motivation to be obsessed by the male muscles:

[Frankzett]

After every figure I sculpt I decide to stop exaggerating the muscles and make it more easy, simple and realistic at the same time. But with every new one I loose myself in doing it again.

Me too, on the other hand, with defining the muscles, I have a better control with the proportions. But it is nearly the same like wrinkles with the clothes, it isn't suitable for every painting style. And we should not forget that the photos of these ancient reliefs and sculptures are arranged with special lighting, to show all the details -actually the same which I do with the photos of my sculpted figures.
But, well, it reflects the idea of sculpting; i prefer a more naturalistic representation, so I do not think so much about painting effects. Some are getting too slim and gangling and I have to correct them by making them thicker and more suitable for painting.

Greetings
Frank

[Alex]

Hehe ... a great mug, among other things. I met such a live ...
Regarding the anatomy, I think you can create a separate topic, colleagues, and I hope Frank actively join.
As for the technology ..
Mr, Cryns -
1 - You are able to experiment with the heat? If everything is OK, I give the following advice (your house burned down, the wife is not collected your suitcase and put it outside the door . ..)
2 - of losing small parts (hair, beard) I do not see the sequence of your sculpting process in time. Did you do these small details at the end of the session the sculpture? When tack mixture has already been lost?

[Cryns]

Alex I was so excited the last two days while you were offline because all the directions you gave me worked out PERFECTLY WELL!

Please do not apologise for being offline for some days.
We are in no hurry at all.
And I don't pay you any money for these lessons (not yet) so you have not to excuse yourself in any way

First of all I did as you told and flattened the wire ends to make hands for this man lifting up a cable or a rowing oar.



I covered it with putty mix and hung it in front of the halogen lamp.

your house burned down

Well.... to be honest....after 5 minutes smoke appeared!



I checked what went wrong. Was it the figure melting? Or was it the cork grip?
Glad to find out it was only the cork smoking and getting black.
I lowerd the position.



And it stopped smoking.

the wife is not collected your suitcase and put it outside the door . ..

My wife has been in hospital last week so I am nursing her at home. At the moment she is not able to walk and she needs me so she could not throw me out of the house

After ten minutes I checked the figure and its arms were very hard already.
Great advice. Thank you.
So this is how you make one complete figure in one day I think.

I added armskin and hands with 100% GS to be sure it sticked to the bare copper of the hands.



Handsculpting is far from perfect but for me it is very succesfull because I made some very strong open, free hands.


When looking at this last picture, I see some uncovered underlayer of the right arm. It looks like it has been burned. It is rough. Do you see?

About the face and hair:

Did you do these small details at the end of the session the sculpture?

Yes that may be right. I should have done it at the beginning.

Which I did with another man: I uses pure GS and added it as facial hair after the face was dry.



It went well and stayed put. Also I flattened the double bended wire in both feet like I did with the hands. Now the feet got too long but are flat and strong.

Have a nice day

[Alex]

oops ... I so feared ...
We must bags clips over the lamp. It is impossible under the lamp. Above the temperature is softer, and is ample and there is no risk.
The result was good.
I is still without his camera, so I will continue to tutorial just words.
Regarding the hair (as well as other small parts)
It is best to do this choose the time at the beginning of the session.
On the dry surface must first spread a thin layer of material without any details, just have to press strongly, stick it to the base .. Then add a greater volume of material, which is already very well will stick to the base and then give it form. This first layer will act as a primer or a flux for soldering.
(I also wish your wife a speedy recovery!)

[Beano Boy]

Health & Safety........ "Or as Gunner might say........" Alf an Safety!"
An issue Paul would I`m sure agree with it being his day job.

Here`s hoping that the Fire Brigade was on standby?
i can well imagine you under the direction of Mrs.Cryns,rushing out bucket`s in hand to the canal just opposite your front door,in order to combat a raging inferno!
And while getting practice in another artful course of doing so, it the fire having put such a singe to your curly hair. Frayed and Frazzled comes easily to my mind.

Also looking at those bright lights can damage the eyes. So take special care!


On another bright footing now.

i am so enjoying your super adventures in this topic," Body Sculpture" along with Alex`s comments too.

In usage of the English Language, i would often say to students that one of my motto`s,
is "It is not what you say,it`s the way that you say it."
i love good humoured banter ,as much as i loved teaching English BB

[Frankzett]

Yeah ... the roof is on fire, we don't need no water let the figure sculptor burn, burn figure sculptor burn!!!... Strange device ...

[Alex]

A little more about the technology.
I see that your skeleton copper wire contains residues of varnish, which is usually covered by a copper wire. These particles of lacquer are prevented from sticking the initial material.
I usually take a coil of wire and put into the fireplace for a while. Lac wire burns and becomes softer. I then carefully clean off with sandpaper burnt remnants of varnish, making the wire shiny and rough. I usually do it in the summer (fireplace located in a country house) and the whole year using this wire.

[Kostis Ornerakis]

@ Mr. Cryns
I wish a speedy recovery to your wife.