Simplicity versus "State of the Art"

[Paul]

After reading a comment elsewhere concerning the Airfix Tarzan Set I had some thoughts....
Sometimes the "state of the art" stuff bugs me. Ok, it can be highly accurate, going to the Level of having fingernails on the bod Hands or every rivet and bolt portrayed on a tank but, IMHO, I think it can be offputting for People, especially younger ones. They see wonderfully detailed stuff painted by highly gifted People and it wouldn´t suprise me if they thought "how can I possibly ever achieve that?" and shut down, never getting the Chance to actually discover that they may have some skill which they can develope into a "Talent"

I´m not against such hyper realistic stuff, I paint enough "high end" historical bods but painting the older less accurate ones , which were after all meant as toys made in more innocent times, I find more fun and more Relaxing.

Maybe, if sets of bods that relied more on the fun aspect, series based stuff..say like X-men, Batman...or better still,DR Who!!! and relying less on historical or anatomical accuracy but developing a range (the Airfix ACW, Wild west sets for example), maybe it would attract a larger younger audience..and I´d love a set of DR Who and associated characters done in the style of the earlier Airfix sets. Imagine..cheapish, simple to build and paint Daleks in 1/72nd!!!! If only it were to be ..sigh!

[Wiking]

Paul wrote:
After reading a comment elsewhere concerning the Airfix Tarzan Set I had some thoughts....
Sometimes the "state of the art" stuff bugs me. Ok, it can be highly accurate, going to the Level of having fingernails on the bod Hands or every rivet and bolt portrayed on a tank but, IMHO, I think it can be offputting for People, especially younger ones. They see wonderfully detailed stuff painted by highly gifted People and it wouldn´t suprise me if they thought "how can I possibly ever achieve that?" and shut down, never getting the Chance to actually discover that they may have some skill which they can develope into a "Talent"

I´m not against such hyper realistic stuff, I paint enough "high end" historical bods but painting the older less accurate ones , which were after all meant as toys made in more innocent times, I find more fun and more Relaxing.


Well said.

What me surprise is that a lot of "Nostalgia" figures from ESCI in quality can easily compete to today`s standard.

[Paul]

Esci are good, late comers to the Hobby when compared to Airfix

Nostalgia was the only word I could come up with at the time of writing..it was more in reference
hence me adding the clause;

Nostalgia referring to less demanding times, not necessarily the Feeling of "oh happy days, everything was much simpler and it was all fields around here when I was a lad"

If I had thought about it I could (should) have used Simplicity

Esci is a good case point. Around the time Esci were producing thier well sculpted sets, revell were knocking out a few simple sets like the Praetorians, saxons, Cowboys etc.. not "state of the art", even at the time* but simple and great fun and, they did seemingly what Airfix did..Praetorians V Celts, Cowboys V Indians, normans v Saxons etc.
All Close enough to being toys that could theoretically represent a TV series, especially the Cowboys and Indians, TV series with a bit of distance to reality.
Sets representing say the Game of thrones would reach an older established audience but seeing as a lot of the series is adult (so I´ve heard, I haven´t seen past the first series, I gave up the will to live after watching it ) it´s offshoot products may not reach a younger audience. And it´s too involved.

A Dr who human characters set versus a Dr who Aliens set ? The market is there. The "give aways" on the DR who Magazine went like hot cakes and now are going for silly Money on evil bay.


* I know they are mostly based on larger Elastolin sets..Nostalgia ?

[Ochoin]

Are trademarks better protected today than in the past? I wonder if Airfix paid anything when they "ripped off" the High Chapparell TV series:
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=41

Regardless I would expect that any plastic miniature company would need to pay exhorbitant sums to buy into any popular franchise.

donald

[Kekso]

Since I'm relatively new in this hobby I can't be nostalgic .
But I think someday I will say something like "good old Zvezda"... I will probably have my own 3D printer when that happens

[Susofrick]

If the Dr Who-character looks like Tom Baker I would definitely buy a set or two! And I think that it is the 3D-printers you will be nostalgic about when you are an old modeler, Dali.

[Paul]

Since I'm relatively new in this hobby I can't be nostalgic .

I´m changing the titel to simplicity

If I had thought about it I could (should) have used Simplicity

[Paul]

Are trademarks better protected today than in the past? I wonder if Airfix paid anything when they "ripped off" the High Chapparell TV series:
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=41

Regardless I would expect that any plastic miniature company would need to pay exhorbitant sums to buy into any popular franchise.

donald

Makes me wonder that if in those days company´s would work together (or just ignore stuff as Long as it promoted thier product) or if back then it was possible that the Copyright laws weren´t so stringent.

Dr Who? There are tons of 28mm "adventurers" that Look exactly like the characters from the series and Airfix has also produced some Dr Who stuff already.

[Paul]

If the Dr Who-character looks like Tom Baker I would definitely buy a set or two!

Getting very off Topic now. Dr Number 4. No problem.. go 28mm.
There´s a few 4th Dr sculpts

From (including all 14 Dr´s)
http://alleydistraction.blogspot.de/201 ... octor.html
and the list of allies and enemies is extensive
http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.php?topic=56140.0

and Tweedy & WPC May, an example of how some of the Dr Who characters get a re-naming to avoid certain copying issues
http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.php?topic=56140.0

[Peter]

Nostalgic it is for me! When I was young you could enter a toyshop and look at all those shelves filled with plastic goodness! Good old Airfix and Atlantic! And the bigger ones from Britains!

Now with all those webshops (thank you that they exist!) you can't get that feeling! Maybe sometimes on a convention or show, but it isn't the same!

Change that title again!

[Paul]

Nostalgia doesn´t convey the Point I was trying to bring over.

Nostalgia is a sentimentality for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations

Sentimentality is the reliance on emotion.

Simplicity however does

Simplicity the fact that something is ordinary, traditional, or natural, and not complicated

Without repeating the original Point, I was asking wether highly detailed top end models etc are off putting to todays beginners.
Obviously the more detailed a kit/model, the more Money Needs to be paid and the more detailed the more skill / Time that´s required to paint...both not that attractive for a younger audience.
Forget the airfix Tarzan set or any old sets....there are other modern makers who have produced stuff along the lines of what I mean (ie; Simple)..RedBox being one...lets pick a set
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=1555
Only 6 years old , so hardly worthy of a tag "Nostalgic" but definately "simple"
and they brush up quite well
http://paulsbods.blogspot.de/2011/09/re ... olice.html
Detail wise not beyond the painting skills of the majority and they are reasonably cheap...and, along the lines of Airfix/Revell, the two sets, Gangsters and Police and citizens, compliment each other.

[vellek]

I would have imagined that Caesar's fantasy series, running close the edge of infringing on the LoTR franchise, would have garnered some interest in younger modelers. They're simple enough yet very well conceived and executed. Plus all the 'combatants' are covered.

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Sho ... aspx?id=39

If it could ever be determined, it would be interesting to see if these sold well when the movies were out.

[Peter]

Paul, in the early years these figures were made for children and not for adults. Remember the playsets from Airfix!

http://henk.fox3000.com/Airfix/6704.jpg

Not only Airfix and Atlantic did this but also Imex (Remember the Alamo) did it. They also kept it simple, cowboys against indians, the blues against the greys (ACW) and the blues against the reds (AWI).

Later on Esci came with the same kind of kits but then more for the WWII period. I'm speaking here about the earlier sets. Almost the same poses as the Airfix marines second edition. Or the 8th Army. Hard plastic figures that had to glued on their base:

http://henk.fox3000.com/Esci/2007/1/01.jpg

Point is that the companies who produce figures and bring them on the market, don't do that for the kids, but for the kids who became adults. That's why they make them with more details, because we aren't satisfied any more with simple made figures.

Kids aren't interested anymore in toy soldiers. They play games on the PC, playstation and so on. That are their toysoldiers.
Kids who start with this hobby (toyfigures) have an example (father, friend) and get infected like we did when we were young (I admit, I'm an old man, and my wife says it to!).

[Zed1]

It's perhaps the same with those HaT French infantrymen that I still paint. Certainly not a top-notch set like the things that Alex or Francesco produce, but they fit right in, even if you can't make them look as good as these Baden infantry dudes from Franznap. I catch myself having developed a sort of behaviour that relates a certain degree of painting intensity to the quality of the sculpting.
That's why I don't put too much efford into some of 'em metal figures, although they still look great when having a somewhat mediocre paintwork on 'em.

What I really see often enough are young folks painting tabletop figures, like that Warhammer stuff. Some of these chaps are really good, but they never care for anything smaller then 28mm because it's not what they're playing with. So as long as youngsters still play with toy soldiers, it has become more professional and rule-bound. Along with that, comes that exaggerated approach of high-end-mastership-painting-arts that you see in magazines, fanzines, on the web and on the coverart of the figure boxes. They all tell you 'this is how your work must look like to be considered as art' - and so it is, people try to compete with that stuff that has been painted by artists who get paid for their work and sometimes do it professionally.

I don't know what's fun about that. But I think that this really scares off people.

[Paul]

Paul, in the early years these figures were made for children and not for adults.

They also kept it simple, cowboys against indians, the blues against the greys (ACW) and the blues against the reds (AWI).

And those are exactly my Points! ...for the younger ones and they were very quickly grabbed and used by experienced wargamers, the likes of Donald Featherstone who certainly wasn´t a kid when the airfix sets started coming out and we then either kept on with it or left and came back

That's why they make them with more details, because we aren't satisfied any more with simple made figures.

Not always with more Detail...(redBox?).and that is also my Point...WE, the older more experienced ones aren´t satisfied and want ever more Detail but it is possibly offputting to the younger potential newer painters/modelmakers.

Take a series like DR who. It´s watched by Young and old alike...Young and old alike collect Dr Who Merchandise...if a firm like airfix angled a new range of 1/72 dr who (or even plastic multi-pose 28mm) stuff at that market...there might be some considerable take up..the ripples of which may lead younger People away from thier PC´s, if not permanently but for a while and then get thier interest in other periods/eras.

Point is that the companies who produce figures and bring them on the market, don't do that for the kids, but for the kids who became adults

The companies on the PSR listing maybe, but that would suggest some of them (redBox) don´t give a toss but they are missing a trick*. There are a Tonnage of toy figures ..all scales specifically aimed at a "child" audience..example off the top of my head, the 1/72nd galoob star wars etc, and at the bigger end of the scales, Schleich. A lot of them have been taken up by adults for wargaming, TMP has loads of threads and a Forum dedicated to "toy" figures wargaming. ..Thing is..not all of those adults playing with thier toys are our advanced Age range or started with airfix etc.
*It could be the makers listed at PSR are in a Hobby cul-de-sac and have to Service this (to a greater %) aged audience.. The likes of Revell and Airfix still have one foot in the childrens end of the hobby and, unlike state of the art makers like Zvezda, have a better opportunity to present stuff more generally across the Age ranges.

[Paul]

It's perhaps the same with those HaT French infantrymen that I still paint. Certainly not a top-notch set like the things that Alex or Francesco produce, but they fit right in, even if you can't make them look as good as these Baden infantry dudes from Franznap. I catch myself having developed a sort of behaviour that relates a certain degree of painting intensity to the quality of the sculpting.
That's why I don't put too much efford into some of 'em metal figures, although they still look great when having a somewhat mediocre paintwork on 'em. .

That´s a lot of what I mean... In short, simplicity has a charm (if that´s the right word) of it´s own.

Along with that, comes that exaggerated approach of high-end-mastership-painting-arts that you see in magazines, fanzines, on the web and on the coverart of the figure boxes. .

and recently one got caught with his/her Pants down after someone spotted the photoshopping.