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Change of painting competition voting system

Posted by Peter on 22 Sep 2010, 20:03

Francesco Giova wrote:Unfortunately this does not happen. Constructive criticism in that situation is extremely rare, it's all full of "great", "loved it", "+1" ... :P

And always the same people, the ones who are interested! Lots of the others, who could give good advise just don't reply :?
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Peter  Belgium

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Posted by Benno on 22 Sep 2010, 21:59

Francesco Giova wrote:Unfortunately this does not happen. Constructive criticism in that situation is extremely rare, it's all full of "great", "loved it", "+1" ... :P
I know, but there is room for those who want to give constructive critisism. If people really want to receive constructive critisism, in stead of just showing what their entry was, they could just ask for it. ;-)
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Benno  Netherlands

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Posted by musketier on 23 Sep 2010, 01:55

I do agree with Benno for I usually do not offer critiques unless it is asked for, if one just posts a picture with out a question then one gets an ego boost ( which is not bad I do admit ;-) )
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musketier  United States of America
 
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Posted by Francesco Giova on 23 Sep 2010, 07:43

I don't think it's a matter of ego boost or simple criticism. It's that, if one votes for a figure and not the other one, he should explain why. This would help both competitors a lot, I'm sure, and give an interesting insight on how people vote (let's put it this way ;-) ). I know this would make the whole procedure longer and would prevent some people from voting, but, as I said, I'm for the quality, not the quantity, of voting people :P
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Francesco Giova  Italy
 
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Posted by Paul on 23 Sep 2010, 08:41

I understand this completely now...the critical feedback :thumbup: :thumbup: I think that could be easily done when people put up thier pics after being put out of a round (in my case slaughtered :-) ). basically there has to be a criterium as to why one votes for one or the other, problem would be;
you would have to remember which was up against which entry to be able to make the comparitive criticism..difficult unless you have a memory as good as mine ( :mrgreen: :joker: )
or take notes...and so would everyone who is interested.
Might work though...but ain´t this all getting a wincy bit off topic?
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Paul  China

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Posted by Benno on 23 Sep 2010, 13:42

Francesco Giova wrote:It's that, if one votes for a figure and not the other one, he should explain why.
I have to disagree. People should be free to vote for an entry without having to justify their decision. An entry might just feel "right" even though the quality of the brushwork is better than its opponent. Of course they can say why they did or didn't choose for that particular entry once the pictures are posted in the galleries.

Francesco Giova wrote: I know this would make the whole procedure longer and would prevent some people from voting
That's true. I'm sure many voters would not vote or still vote without justifying their decision.

I agree with you Francesco, the idea of giving constructive criticism in the competitions is a very good one. I just don't think it would work once it is put into practice. Just like the comparisons we did a while back. In the beginning a few were very enthusiastic about doing comparisons but almost nobody joined them. I'm afraid the same thing will happen in the competitions once people have to justify their votes. The fun in participating would also decrease if all entries receive feedback (or no feedback and vote at all) from the same (three/four?) people. This means less entries. What we end up with is a competition of four entries and an equal amount of votes. Is that fun? I don't think so.

Like I said, it's a good idea but I just don't think it would work here.


Paul wrote:you would have to remember which was up against which entry to be able to make the comparitive criticism
All polls are kept online during the competition so they can check who their opponent was. ;-)
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Benno  Netherlands

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Posted by Paul on 23 Sep 2010, 17:38

Paul wrote:you would have to remember which was up against which entry to be able to make the comparitive criticism


Benno wrote:All polls are kept online during the competition so they can check who their opponent was. ;-)

They are now..my old brain was thinking of the good old days when they disappeared after the Poll was finished :-) Now it´s better...
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Posted by Roland_Kupski on 24 Sep 2010, 06:09

Every effort to change the system will produce more problems than solving them. It´s a fun, and it should remain so. The only other solution which I woul appreciate is the "eternal" voting system of cmon. But then there is no "winner", and it would change the character of the site. http://www.coolminiornot.com/146526

We have stopped voting and polling for figures on najemo.de after a few days. It poisons the atmosphere and creates a type of seriousness which is quite odd in our hobby. I hate this type of competition.
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Roland_Kupski  Germany
 
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Posted by Peter on 28 Sep 2010, 17:23

Michel wrote: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Everything for my Buddy...!!!!!! :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

I put this up here also.. I find this kind of comment not good. He shows no respect for other ones work.
And I doubt it that Thomas really likes this kind of comment (see my comment in the topic of the PC winner).

Benno wrote:In the current competition layout somebody who's out in a round, is out in the competition. This will change in the new layout. I know people spend a lot of time building an entry and that it is painful to see it go out. In the new layout entries will stay one more week in the competition to "fight" for 4th and 3rd place. This gives people a second chance in the competition. More about the new competition layout later.


This running competition? Does this mean that who is out the first round, is not allowed to post his pictures yet?
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Peter  Belgium

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Posted by Susofrick on 29 Sep 2010, 07:55

That's how it was with the 22nd(?) competition. I had to wait with my little drummer boy. :-D But this time I don't think it will take that long. 8) Those with the least votes must be able to show their work and maybe explain what they did and why almost as soon as they are out. And I don't think we ever can avoid people voting for friends. This is a fun way to see work from the members and sometimes it is very very hard to vote. Since we have some members that are friends I think we just have to live with that. I sit here alone in my dragonship among the frozen paintcans :( :( :( :cry: :joker: We know that Thomas made a great piece of work again and all Michel says is that he voted on a good piece of work and that he is happy for his friend. I think it is fun and find some joy in that people don't only like the work, but also the person behind the work (that MUST :shock: be the reason I don't win!). That those far away may find it harder to win then is a problem, but only if we make it one. All the winner win is a golden brush at his avatar, all is for fun and if you lose you still can see all those wonderful entries and say what you liked about them. Sorry for all those words, didn't get enough sleep (the missus MS-legs didn't want us to get any rest last night).
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Susofrick  Sweden
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Posted by Benno on 29 Sep 2010, 09:00

Peter wrote:This running competition? Does this mean that who is out the first round, is not allowed to post his pictures yet?
No, these changes will take effect from the 28th Painting Competition (January).

Peter wrote:I put this up here also.. I find this kind of comment not good. He shows no respect for other ones work.
And I doubt it that Thomas really likes this kind of comment (see my comment in the topic of the PC winner).
T. Dürrschmidt wrote:@Peter: Michel and me are close friends. He is just kidding!
You might have misinterpreted Michel's comment Peter.
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Benno  Netherlands

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Posted by Paul on 29 Sep 2010, 16:14

Paul wrote:but ain´t this all getting a wincy bit off topic?

One thing...is it at all possible that to start this subject...the changing of the voting system...would have opened a "can of worms" in this way. ??
It might be best to lock this one down before it really kicks off.
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Paul  China

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Posted by MABO on 29 Sep 2010, 21:01

One thing...is it at all possible that to start this subject...the changing of the voting system...would have opened a "can of worms" in this way. ??
It might be best to lock this one down before it really kicks off.


I vote for this option!
:neutral:
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MABO  Germany
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Posted by Peter on 29 Sep 2010, 21:24

T. Dürrschmidt wrote:@Peter: Michel and me are close friends. He is just kidding!

No problems with kidding for me ;-) , but it's the way he brought it :nono: . Just a little word for the other contributors and you wouldn't have heard me.

Benno wrote:You might have misinterpreted Michel's comment Peter.

I didn't. With this comment I believe he voted for the person and not the work.

We all do our very best to bring something good in the comp, so that deserves a little bit of respect!

Changing the voting system will bring us nothing if it goes on this way.

PS: maybe a little word of Michel could clear this out!
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Peter  Belgium

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Posted by Michel on 30 Sep 2010, 05:29

Hi Folks...!

I am confused a little bit! :think:
Nevertheless, it is my personal decision for whom I give my voice!
... and why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

An assessment is always subjective and lies in the eye of the viewer!
... and in my eyes I liked the contribution of Thomas most of all!

Here in the forum is always tuned after personal predilections!
For some only the subject, e.g., WW2 counts!
It eliminates an artistically better work because the other subject is more popular with most!
2 years ago have been interested here least in WW2 and now I look in Pictures and a lot of pictures WW2 are to be seen there!
There are unshaded single figures glued on a base and then celebrated by the members, as if the Messiah is raise again!

...but this does not disturb me, because I do not take seriously such competitions at all!
... for described reasons!

The taste is different and this feels well thus...! :notworthy:

@Peter :kiss:
I've voted allways for the Work and not for the person, as it act most here, obviously!
I respect the work of the other participants, even if I do not like it...!
I have simply been glad about the victory of my mate...! :king:
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Michel  Germany
 
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Posted by ModernKiwi on 30 Sep 2010, 06:30

People are free to vote for whatever reason they chose, whether for talent, friendship, or both. Trying to prevent that is an exercise in pointlessness.

To be honest, one of the great things that has happened to Benno's over the past 24 months is the large increase in the members. I for one can no longer tell just who created an entry, and to me that adds to the attraction.

Finally, and speaking as one who's skills are not the greatest, I appreciate the support (and help) that this forum has supplied when I have posted pictures of my work. I know that more than one member has made massive improvements in their talents over the time I have been here, and I'd hate to think that they could have been driven away by a relentlessly negative series of comments. As Benno has put it before, "say it nice". It's not hard.
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Posted by Paul on 30 Sep 2010, 16:54

Michel wrote:
Here in the forum is always tuned after personal predilections!
For some only the subject, e.g., WW2 counts!
It eliminates an artistically better work because the other subject is more popular with most!
2 years ago have been interested here least in WW2 and now I look in Pictures and a lot of pictures WW2 are to be seen there!
There are unshaded single figures glued on a base and then celebrated by the members, as if the Messiah is raise again!

But if no-one says anything then they should not expect praise for thier work in return ...surely???
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Paul  China

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Posted by musketier on 30 Sep 2010, 19:19

I can see now the point Paul was making two posts up previously and I concur :-D
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musketier  United States of America
 
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Posted by Peter on 02 Oct 2010, 16:34

After the reply of Michel here, and some personal contact, I must admit that I missunderstood Michels point of view, wich for I appolize. I've cleaned my post in the PC winner topic.

And for me this discussion ends here.
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Peter  Belgium

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Posted by k.b. on 08 Oct 2010, 03:05

Just had an interesting idea methinks. :lamp:

Agree with lots of what has been said and disagree with lots but at the end of the day what we are ultimately looking for is that the best entry wins. Regardless of being a more popular period or being painted by a more popular individual.

I personally don't think people should have to justify their votes otherwise we would be complicating life when what we really want to do is to simplify it.

What often makes it difficult for me to understand certain choices is that people vote for entries that don't appear to show just how good the painting is. Are they privately mailed larger photos which show the real quality of a paint job and, thus, have the chance to see in close-up what the majority of us are unable to see?

If that is so then it suggests to me that as the competition develops maybe competitors could be allowed to add an extra photo for each further round they progress in the competition. In other words by the time an entry gets to the final the painter may have added an extra 3 or 4 photos of his work including most probably close-ups to fully demonstrate the quality of his brushwork.

Either that or Benno himself enlargens the 2 photos entered initially so that we all can truly judge the BEST painted figure. If such a change is made I believe the winning entry will 99.9 times out of a hundred be THE best painted figure in the competition which is what we are surely aiming for.

The competitions will then be more fun because despite having no prizes the best entry should undoubtedly win.
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