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Change of painting competition voting system

Posted by Paul on 20 Sep 2010, 18:27

Dad's Army wrote:
Paul wrote:
Benno wrote:I don't think there's much that can be done against people who vote for their friends or anything like that. I've thought about this before but couldn't come up with anything to counter this. If you have an idea, please share. :-)

In fact it is difficult to do anything about it, only REPEAT and REPEAT and REPEAT that it should not be done :-)

Maybe it could be controlled once or twice...see what the voting patterns are???

Dad's Army wrote: :nono: its just a game and for fun

I did say maybe...I didn´t think it would be taken up but Benno did ask if anyone had an idea then to share it. ;-)
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Paul  China

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Posted by Francesco Giova on 20 Sep 2010, 19:19

Dad's Army wrote: :nono: its just a game and for fun


But there's people who take it seriously (see Keith / k.b. comments ...). After all, the word "competition" means (from Wikipedia) :

Competition is a contest between individuals, groups, nations, animals, etc. for territory, a niche, or a location of resources. It arises whenever two or more parties strive for a goal which cannot be shared.

So, no space for fun ;-)

Do we want fun ? Then let's call it Gallery On a Particular Topic (single fig, mounted fig) and let's take the whole voting system away :lamp:
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Francesco Giova  Italy
 
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Posted by Dad's Army on 20 Sep 2010, 19:22

Francesco Giova wrote:
Dad's Army wrote: :nono: its just a game and for fun


But there's people who take it seriously (see Keith / k.b. comments ...). After all, the word "competition" means (from Wikipedia) :

Competition is a contest between individuals, groups, nations, animals, etc. for territory, a niche, or a location of resources. It arises whenever two or more parties strive for a goal which cannot be shared.

So, no space for fun ;-)

Do we want fun ? Then let's call it Gallery On a Particular Topic (single fig, mounted fig) and let's take the whole voting system away :lamp:

See the description of the category Painting Competition. ;-)
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Dad's Army  Netherlands

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Posted by Francesco Giova on 20 Sep 2010, 19:32

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Francesco Giova  Italy
 
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Posted by Benno on 20 Sep 2010, 22:53

The panel of expert judges might be something we could do as an extra in future competitions. Could you show me an example Francesco?

Competition is a contest between individuals, groups, nations, animals, etc. for territory, a niche, or a location of resources. It arises whenever two or more parties strive for a goal which cannot be shared.
I'm pretty sure you can have fun while striving after a certain goal (in this case going to the next round/winning the competition). It wouldn't be really sportsmanlike if you didn't.



I'd like to stress that the competitions are really meant for fun. They are not too serious, after all you only get a picture of a golden brush for a month. Where's the fun part? It is in the building and painting of your entry, then sending it in, being surprised by the entry of your opponent and which entry gets the most votes. Once the competition is running, it's exciting and fun to check the poll from time to time to see whether you or your opponent has a new vote. If you can't have fun doing so, I wouldn't advise you to join the competions. ;-)

In the current competition layout somebody who's out in a round, is out in the competition. This will change in the new layout. I know people spend a lot of time building an entry and that it is painful to see it go out. In the new layout entries will stay one more week in the competition to "fight" for 4th and 3rd place. This gives people a second chance in the competition. More about the new competition layout later.
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Benno  Netherlands

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Posted by ColeF on 20 Sep 2010, 23:30

Benno wrote:In the current competition layout somebody who's out in a round, is out in the competition. This will change in the new layout. I know people spend a lot of time building an entry and that it is painful to see it go out. In the new layout entries will stay one more week in the competition to "fight" for 4th and 3rd place. This gives people a second chance in the competition. More about the new competition layout later.



Kinda like a double elimination comp?
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Posted by Francesco Giova on 21 Sep 2010, 08:04

Benno wrote:The panel of expert judges might be something we could do as an extra in future competitions. Could you show me an example Francesco?.


I was talking about the guys at http://www.braillescalecomp.com/default.html, where every month a competition on 1/72 vehicles is hold. They have this kind of double voting system (well, not every month, it seems), one from a panel and one from the users.

Benno wrote:I'd like to stress that the competitions are really meant for fun. They are not too serious, after all you only get a picture of a golden brush for a month. Where's the fun part? It is in the building and painting of your entry, then sending it in, being surprised by the entry of your opponent and which entry gets the most votes. Once the competition is running, it's exciting and fun to check the poll from time to time to see whether you or your opponent has a new vote. If you can't have fun doing so, I wouldn't advise you to join the competions. ;-)


Agree with you on everything :-D , I did have a lot of fun when I took part and still have it following the competitions and voting. But I was only answering to your call, giving my personal opinion on the voting system :-) . Basically, I think people gone out would like to know why, even as a way to improve. If voters could motivate their vote, that would be great :thumbup:
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Francesco Giova  Italy
 
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Posted by Paul on 21 Sep 2010, 08:57

Francesco Giova wrote: Basically, I think people gone out would like to know why, even as a way to improve. If voters could motivate their vote, that would be great :thumbup:

Well put :thumbup: Some of the feed back is missing sometimes.
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Posted by Martin on 21 Sep 2010, 19:54

Hi Guys,

I think it is important that the members on this forum vote anyway.
And if you see how little votes are given, we should not talk about how to count votes or the system of voting.
NO, then you are missing the boat!! Spare your energy.
We have to think about how we get MORE votes.
How do we make the non-voters interested in voting?
Is it possible to send a message to all members when there is a competition starting?
If we can bring it to the attention of all, we sure can activate the non voting members to vote more!
Ugh.
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Martin  Netherlands
 
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Posted by Peter on 21 Sep 2010, 19:58

Now looks who's back :cheers:

Good points Martin, but persons like Rich and me are trying that in our signature nad it doesn't really work. :cry:
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Peter  Belgium

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Posted by Martin on 21 Sep 2010, 21:15

Peter wrote:Now looks who's back :cheers:



Yep,
Too less time lately.
Hope to be here more often.
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Martin  Netherlands
 
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Posted by Martin on 21 Sep 2010, 21:17

Peter wrote: Good points Martin, but persons like Rich and me are trying that in our signature nad it doesn't really work. :cry:



I've seen that.
But that doesn't seem to help.
Perhaps we should try it another way,, like I suggested.
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Posted by Paul on 22 Sep 2010, 08:19

But if members only ever log on once a month or even less then sending them a PM is as effective as Peter and Remco having it flagged up on the bottom of thier profiles.


Something similar about this idea?????????
Paul wrote:On some forums, members are only considered active when they have made a certain number of posts, ie; they have taken part....a lot of "members" here haven´t posted anything and some others have just disappeared...maybe with the last categorie, after 6 months they get a reminder PM and then a bye bye PM. I mean, look how many members there are registered and the total of votes is always about 50 + .
Maybe a result by action method would encourage people to join in :scratch:
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Posted by Benno on 22 Sep 2010, 13:31

It's funny Martin brought it up because I was thinking about the same thing the other day: an e-mail listing. All the members (and perhaps non-members?) receive an e-mail when a competition starts and perhaps when a new round has started.

Most members get notified via e-mail when they have a PM. However, there are people that don't want to receive an e-mail every week/month. The forum PM system isn't really a good system for this. Besides, it's better to send people an e-mail because they will notice these quicker than PM's (especially those who don't visit the forum that often).
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Benno  Netherlands

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Posted by Paul on 22 Sep 2010, 15:29

Benno wrote:It's funny Martin brought it up because I was thinking about the same thing the other day: an e-mail listing. All the members (and perhaps non-members?) receive an e-mail when a competition starts and perhaps when a new round has started.

Who are the non-members?? Who brought it up???
Wasn´t all this discussed here ?
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4305&hilit=why+bother
At that time I seem to remember Remco came up with the idea of e-mail or Pms to non-active members to see if they were still around or whatever...and hasn´t it been discussed elswhere?
Is Peter and Rich´s message not helping much?? At least they are trying.

Shouldn´t the VERY fact that when people log on they can see that there are new posts, included in that list the comps and duels. ????
If they never log on, they wont see the flagged up posts/threads anyway and E-mails etc won´t help either then. Worth a try maybe..
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Posted by Francesco Giova on 22 Sep 2010, 15:42

Somehow, it's not the QUANTITY of votes, but the QUALITY which worries me :roll: ;-)
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Posted by Benno on 22 Sep 2010, 16:26

The non-members are those who don't have an account here and might want to be informed about when a competition starts so they can watch. Perhaps they want to register after a while to take part in the voting.

The signature messages won't work for those who don't visit the forum that often. When somebody who doesn't come here that often logs in almost everything will be flagged up so they don't know where to look first. Most might only look in Galleries, Work in Progress, Miniatures News and then leave. It already takes a lot of time to go through those categories alone if you haven't been here for a while. People will see an e-mail in their inbox more quickly than a PM/post/signature on a forum which they don't visit that often.

Besides that, not everybody who logs in will read all the flagged up posts. They might not be interested in them and just want to see the galleries for instance. An e-mail works better because most members who don't log in/visit the forum do check their e-mail regularly and you can direct/inform them directly to/about the Painting Competitions.
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Benno  Netherlands

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Posted by Paul on 22 Sep 2010, 16:55

Benno wrote:The non-members are those who don't have an account here and might want to be informed about when a competition starts so they can watch. Perhaps they want to register after a while to take part in the voting.

Understood :-) :thumbup:

Benno wrote:The signature messages won't work for those who don't visit the forum that often. When somebody who doesn't come here that often logs in almost everything will be flagged up so they don't know where to look first. Most might only look in Galleries, Work in Progress, Miniatures News and then leave. It already takes a lot of time to go through those categories alone if you haven't been here for a while. People will see an e-mail in their inbox more quickly than a PM/post/signature on a forum which they don't visit that often.

Then all I can say is.....not the fault of the forum.
They should either;
Visit a bit more regularily...I know the arguments about that not possible etc
Make the flagged up posts "disappear" after a couple of weeks...it can be a pain for instance, when suddenly you log on and there´s tons of stuff (sometimes pages) that has been dredged up and answered...(this has also been discussed elsewhere) I then can understand the point of not wanting to trawl through it all. In cases like that I mark EVERYTHING as read, so sometimes miss out cos of irregulars.

Benno wrote:Besides that, not everybody who logs in will read all the flagged up posts. They might not be interested in them and just want to see the galleries for instance. An e-mail works better because most members who don't log in/visit the forum do check their e-mail regularly and you can direct/inform them directly to/about the Painting Competitions.

If all they are interested in is looking at one section or other then it comes back to "why bother to register?" I can do that without registering...voting not.
and anyway...the Duels / comps could theoretically keep going as they are...it 0nly needs 3 votes to have a winner in any section.... :-)

Maybe the best way is something along the lines of;
try the e-mailing...see if it alters the vote this time around
and Flag the duels /comps up so they are very noticable. Maybe make the "flag" at these sections a different colour that winks?? If that´s possible??
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Posted by Benno on 22 Sep 2010, 18:07

Paul wrote:If all they are interested in is looking at one section or other then it comes back to "why bother to register?" I can do that without registering...voting not.
I can only speculate why they register. If they want to register, let them register. I'm sure they got their reasons to do so. We don't need to know everything. :-)

Paul wrote:Maybe the best way is something along the lines of;
try the e-mailing...see if it alters the vote this time around
and Flag the duels /comps up so they are very noticable. Maybe make the "flag" at these sections a different colour that winks?? If that´s possible??
I'll try the mailing system in a couple of months once I got the forum all working again as I'd like to. It's currently not possible to make the flags of these sections look different from the other flags.

In the new look of the forum there will be internal advertisements to give extra attention to the competitions and duels. Maybe this will help a bit too.

Francesco Giova wrote:Basically, I think people gone out would like to know why, even as a way to improve. If voters could motivate their vote, that would be great
People who are out of the competition usually post their pictures in the galleries. If there are members who'd like to explain why they did or didn't vote for that entry, they could do so there.
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Posted by Francesco Giova on 22 Sep 2010, 19:07

Benno wrote:People who are out of the competition usually post their pictures in the galleries. If there are members who'd like to explain why they did or didn't vote for that entry, they could do so there.

Unfortunately this does not happen. Constructive criticism in that situation is extremely rare, it's all full of "great", "loved it", "+1" ... :P
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