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Change of painting competition voting system

Posted by Benno on 18 Sep 2010, 12:26

Maurice wrote:I would rather see a change in the voting/poll system.

What sort of change would you like to see?
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Benno  Netherlands

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Posted by Paul on 18 Sep 2010, 12:30

Benno wrote:
Maurice wrote:I would rather see a change in the voting/poll system.

What sort of change would you like to see?

Is that only for Maurice or is it a general question??? :-)
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Paul  China

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Posted by Benno on 18 Sep 2010, 12:31

You can join the discussion. :-)
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Benno  Netherlands

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Posted by Andreas on 18 Sep 2010, 12:39

Hmmm ...who can tell me why anybody should change his mind ?
Once i have seen and decided i stand by my vote .

It can only be personal Reasons like Paul said .
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Posted by Paul on 18 Sep 2010, 13:01

Andreas wrote:Hmmm ...who can tell me why anybody should change his mind ?
Once i have seen and decided i stand by my vote .

It can only be personal Reasons like Paul said .


I think Benno means wether we should change the voting system totally; ie not have the one vote for each section as is now...the changing your vote after you have voted is the other thread.
I´ll think about this one...maybe a way that would get the personal angle taken out of the polls...difficult.
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Paul  China

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Posted by Maurice on 18 Sep 2010, 13:05

Maybe set it up more like the EC football, for the first round at least. Instead of having 8 polls with 1 against 1 entry, do 2 or perhaps 4 polls with 8 or 4 entries against each other, and then people can give them 1-4 points and which ever work gets the most points that way goes to the next round, so the best works have a better chance of getting to the next round. Because right now, you see too often potential winners or finalists getting kicked out in the first round because they're up against another potential winner/finalist.
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Posted by Peter on 18 Sep 2010, 13:09

I think I know what Maurice is meaning (correct me if I'm wrong Maurice).

Now when the entries come in they get their place, Nr 1 against Nr 2, and so on. Now could it be that two potential finalist come out against eachother in the first round and one of them goes out. Bad luck :?

But I have been thinking about this problem. There is a solution, but that means more work for Benno on the competitions :?

Let's take the running competition as an example:

- Round 1: 12 entries (6 winners + 2 best runner ups => round 2)
- Round 2: 8 entries (4 winners)
- Round 2 bis: the four entries who didn't go to round 2 in 1 poll (Place 12 - 11 - 10)
- Round 3: 4 entries (2 winners)
- Round 3 bis: the four entries who didn't go to round 3 + winner round 2 bis in 1 poll (5 entries) (place 9 - 8 - 7 - 6)
- Round 4: 2 entries (Golden brush winner) Place one and two
- Round 4 bis: the two entries who didn't go to round 4 + winner round 3 bis in 1 poll (3 entries) (place 5 -4 - 3)

This is just a suggestion, but as allready said this is a lot of work to Benno. And it could be confusing.
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Peter  Belgium

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Posted by Paul on 18 Sep 2010, 13:32

:drool: :drool: As they say here "I understand only trainstation" :neutral:
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Posted by Francesco Giova on 18 Sep 2010, 13:50

Over time, I have been making some considerations, and this is a nice occasion to share them with you:

1. Peter's idea is intriguing but could be simplified for the sake of simplicity: half of the competitors go to the following round, of course the most voted ones.

2. Every voter must remember the basic idea behind voting: VOTE FOR THE FIGURE YOU LIKE BEST, not for the one of the painter you like best, or the one of the person you are more friend with, or the one of the person who could vote yours in exchange. It is sad but true: this happens everywhere, but when it happens, the entire voting system and therefore the competition looses credibility and appeal.

3. Voting only permitted to active users (of course after having decided what one has to do to be considered "active").

4. In mounted figures and single figures competitions, NO BASING AT ALL.

5. We could consider if moderators and/or best painters (former golden brush winners ?) could have some sort of "heavy" vote.
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Francesco Giova  Italy
 
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Posted by Paul on 18 Sep 2010, 14:15

Francesco Giova wrote:1. Peter's idea is intriguing but could be simplified for the sake of simplicity: half of the competitors go to the following round, of course the most voted ones.


I didn´t understand it :rabbit: ..so a simplified version would be nice :-)

Francesco Giova wrote:2. Every voter must remember the basic idea behind voting: VOTE FOR THE FIGURE YOU LIKE BEST, not for the one of the painter you like best, or the one of the person you are more friend with, or the one of the person who could vote yours in exchange. It is sad but true: this happens everywhere, but when it happens, the entire voting system and therefore the competition looses credibility and appeal.


Excactly :thumbup: I sometimes get the feeling people just DO NOT look. I never vote on the 1st day of a poll, I wait one or two days (at least) and then after considering what I´m looking at, make my vote.

Francesco Giova wrote:3. Voting only permitted to active users (of course after having decided what one has to do to be considered "active").


On some forums, members are only considered active when they have made a certain number of posts, ie; they have taken part....a lot of "members" here haven´t posted anything and some others have just disappeared...maybe with the last categorie, after 6 months they get a reminder PM and then a bye bye PM. I mean, look how many members there are registered and the total of votes is always about 50 + .
Maybe a result by action method would encourage people to join in :scratch:

Francesco Giova wrote:4. In mounted figures and single figures competitions, NO BASING AT ALL.


Agreed :thumbup: I try my best not to look at any basing in these comps (single foot and mounted) but maybe it could be more stressed about that the voting is for the bod / nag and not the countyside it´s sitting in.

Francesco Giova wrote:5. We could consider if moderators and/or best painters (former golden brush winners ?) could have some sort of "heavy" vote.


The last one...I think not. How would then a multiple winner be re-warded?? Would they get say 10 votes to play with??
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Posted by Peter on 18 Sep 2010, 14:19

Paul, just for your information. We have 128 registred non-active members :confused:
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Posted by Francesco Giova on 18 Sep 2010, 14:23

Paul wrote: The last one...I think not. How would then a multiple winner be re-warded?? Would they get say 10 votes to play with??


Just think what Thomas could do :lol: No, I was thinking one win - one "heavy" vote :-). I don't know how, it's only a vague idea to work upon 8)
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Posted by Paul on 18 Sep 2010, 14:33

Francesco Giova wrote:
Paul wrote: The last one...I think not. How would then a multiple winner be re-warded?? Would they get say 10 votes to play with??


Just think what Thomas could do :lol: No, I was thinking one win - one "heavy" vote :-). I don't know how, it's only a vague idea to work upon 8)


:sweatdrop: :sweatdrop: Phew! :-) I see, one vote if you win, but only the one, no matter how often you win.
Then that could bring a problem (maybe) if there are a lot of winners with this "heavy" vote, then they could as a group (I don´t suggest they would work together) alter the weight of the voting even more than it seems to be now...ie a clear winner in any round would totally destroy the other which, it feels not too brilliant to try and get out early, but if you are completely smashed then it would feel worse, which might put people off trying (hasn´t stopped me though :-) :rabbit: )
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Posted by musketier on 18 Sep 2010, 15:01

There are some good ideas here about voting changes. the only one I disagree with and personally think would lead to more trouble than its worth is the 'heavy' vote by past winners.
The only thing I can think of to use a system like that is in case of a tie past winners could be formed into a panel of judges.
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Posted by Paul on 18 Sep 2010, 15:12

Peter wrote:Paul, just for your information. We have 128 registred non-active members :confused:

I know..but of the rest only about 50 plus EVER vote. I think there could be 20.000 forum members and only 50 would ever vote....except in the duels where only the hardcore seem to even notice they are there.
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Posted by Francesco Giova on 18 Sep 2010, 15:25

The idea of an "heavy vote" was only a way to give former winners some kind of additional prize, and, mainly, to give the right consideration to technical excellence, which could be underweighted during the voting procedure if most of the voters are newbies, and therefore can not recognize a brilliant paintwork.

Of course, I am sure moderators / golden brush winners wouldn't organize any kind of mafia (they are all good guys ... :-D )

I am not really thinking about "1 heavy vote = 10 normal votes", just a way to give experts more weight in the voting system ...
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Posted by Benno on 20 Sep 2010, 12:13

Thank you for your feedback. I'm currently thinking of a new format for the competitions that doesn't take too much of my time (I'm also just doing this for fun in the end :-) ).

The multi-point system of Maurice isn't technically possible right now (nor would I know how to write the code to make this possible).

I don't think there's much that can be done against people who vote for their friends or anything like that. I've thought about this before but couldn't come up with anything to counter this. If you have an idea, please share. :-)

I might look in the "only active users can vote" thingy.

I don't really see the "heavy" vote thing working. They could have to much influence on the voting which might discourage others from voting.

Paul wrote:On some forums, members are only considered active when they have made a certain number of posts, ie; they have taken part....a lot of "members" here haven´t posted anything and some others have just disappeared...maybe with the last categorie, after 6 months they get a reminder PM and then a bye bye PM. I mean, look how many members there are registered and the total of votes is always about 50 + .
Having 50+ votes in the competition is actually quite an achievement. When we started the competitions there were about 200 members and there were some 20 votes in each poll. Just because we have almost 500 members doesn't mean they're all active and on the forum all day every day. Most check the forum once a month or once a week, join for one discussion and then forget about the forum, or read the forum and only take part in topics they find interesting. Of course there are several more reasons why people aren't "active". I'm registered at multiple forums too and usually don't post or check them out regulary. Most of the times I forget to visit them because I'm busy with this forum or other stuff. I also more of a reader than a poster and I'm sure there are more like me out there. It's normal that about 50% of the members almost never visit a social community they are registered at.

Peter wrote:We have 128 registred non-active members
This is just a rank for those who haven't posted anything yet. They might be active on the forum without posting anything. :-)
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Benno  Netherlands

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Posted by Francesco Giova on 20 Sep 2010, 12:37

Benno wrote:I don't think there's much that can be done against people who vote for their friends or anything like that. I've thought about this before but couldn't come up with anything to counter this. If you have an idea, please share. :-)

In fact it is difficult to do anything about it, only REPEAT and REPEAT and REPEAT that it should not be done :-)

Benno wrote:I don't really see the "heavy" vote thing working. They could have to much influence on the voting which might discourage others from voting.

I like the way the comp works at Braille Scale - users vote for the best model, while a panel of experts give gold, silver and bronze medals on the basis of technical excellence, having to justify their decision with a small text that is very important to the authors of the models if they wants to improve. Sometimes "gold medal" and "most voted" coincide, sometimes not ;-)
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Posted by Paul on 20 Sep 2010, 16:01

Francesco Giova wrote:
Benno wrote:I don't think there's much that can be done against people who vote for their friends or anything like that. I've thought about this before but couldn't come up with anything to counter this. If you have an idea, please share. :-)

In fact it is difficult to do anything about it, only REPEAT and REPEAT and REPEAT that it should not be done :-)

Maybe it could be controlled once or twice...see what the voting patterns are???
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Posted by Dad's Army on 20 Sep 2010, 17:52

Paul wrote:
Francesco Giova wrote:
Benno wrote:I don't think there's much that can be done against people who vote for their friends or anything like that. I've thought about this before but couldn't come up with anything to counter this. If you have an idea, please share. :-)

In fact it is difficult to do anything about it, only REPEAT and REPEAT and REPEAT that it should not be done :-)

Maybe it could be controlled once or twice...see what the voting patterns are???

:nono: its just a game and for fun
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