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Did Roman Soldiers Wear Red Tunics?

Posted by Mr. Cryns on 24 Jun 2017, 13:06

Konrad send me that movie link last week so finally I could watch it too.

Thank you Konrad for posting the link and starting a terrific exchange of knowledge, idea's and opinions.

I think that guy presenting his video-story is using a lot of words and very very poor image material to give us very little information.

After reading all of your replies to this movie again, there are some thing I like to say:

Thank you so much sberry and Chariobaude for your most interesting information.

sberry wrote:the evidence on Roman military clothing is fragmentary and difficult to interpret, but it still exists. The answer from the RGM in Cologne is not really helpful – to it me it seems they just didn’t want to be bothered.

That is exactly what I thought: no interest in being bothered.

Question to our German members: is there suddenly a huge Roman museum in front of the side entrance of the Koln Dom church? Last time I was there, there was'nt. There was just the Stadtliches Historisches Museum opposite the Northern remnants of the Roman city walls.

sberry wrote:their blunt statement that we don’t know anything anyway is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Well said, sberry, well said :yeah:

Konrad and FredG, there is something that I feel very uncomfortable with when reading this:

Konrad wrote:FredG wrote:
Sorry but all a mosaic proves is that someone laid it. The rest is guess work.
That is also my opinion.


Why feeling uncomfortable with it? Because I don't want to read such non-constructive opinions.

The fact is there are hundreds of Romans in my storage waiting to be painted.
I do not expect to receive hard true facts from you, like in a court of justice.
All I like to know is:

THE MOST PROBABLE COLORS
The most probable.
Not the truth based on secured facts.
Just the most probable with the information we can gather
Most probable for what archeological science is giving us at date 2017

Ironically, I do not believe in strict uniformity concerning the Roman legions, not in early republican days, not in the high days of the first Emperors and not in the decline and final centuries of the empire. If there was strict uniformity in color, it would have been captured by the numerous sources.
I believe in a mixture of colors, quality and style for every man in unit, no matter if it was Auxilia or Legionaries. With, of course, some colors dominating a unit more than another.

And exactly that strict uniformity in color is what Konrad (but also Uderzo and Goscinny) DID use and show us when he painted his beautiful and most impressive Roman legion.

Konrad: why that uniformity in color, why every man looking the same, if nothing is sure?
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Mr. Cryns  Netherlands

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Posted by FredG on 24 Jun 2017, 14:56

[quote="Mr. Cryns
Konrad and FredG, there is something that I feel very uncomfortable with when reading this.............
Why feeling uncomfortable with it? Because I don't want to read such non-constructive opinions.

The fact is there are hundreds of Romans in my storage waiting to be painted.
I do not expect to receive hard true facts from you, like in a court of justice.
All I like to know is:

THE MOST PROBABLE COLORS
The most probable.
Not the truth based on secured facts.
[/quote]

Welcome to Hollywood :P
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FredG  United Kingdom
 
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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 27 Jun 2017, 10:23

I am sorry FredG but I really don't understand the point you are trying to make here.
When no true facts are available, the most probable options is all what we can ask for and expect to gather.

What has Hollywood to do with that?
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Mr. Cryns  Netherlands

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Posted by Susofrick on 27 Jun 2017, 11:33

I'm with Remco in this, but there are some sources that say that red uniform was used too. Maybe that's why we don't see much blood in the pictures. Photoshop wasn't invented yet so they had to use other means to save us from bad things in the pictures.
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Susofrick  Sweden
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Posted by Bluefalchion on 27 Jun 2017, 14:57

I think when the Ancient Romans created tile mosaics, they deliberately used the wrong colors for the robes. Matbe it just tickled them pink to think that their japes would mislead military scale model figure painters some day, in a millenium or two.
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Posted by FredG on 27 Jun 2017, 16:08

You are a very rich merchant and you wish to commission a mosaic for your grand entrance hall.
You are a great fan of Napoleon and a mosaic of his crossing the Alps is one you'd like, so do you choose this image
Image

or this much nearer the truth image

Image

More importantly which would your wife want on HER floor

Now go back to 2000 years and tell me the Romans wouldn't make the same kind of choice.
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Posted by FredG on 27 Jun 2017, 16:13

Mr. Cryns wrote:I am sorry FredG but I really don't understand the point you are trying to make here.
When no true facts are available, the most probable options is all what we can ask for and expect to gather.

What has Hollywood to do with that?


The point is, Mr Cryns, there are no true facts available . Opinions and guesses should not be presented as fact.
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FredG  United Kingdom
 
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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 27 Jun 2017, 16:46

FredG wrote: Opinions and guesses should not be presented as fact.


Who does so?
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Mr. Cryns  Netherlands

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Posted by FredG on 27 Jun 2017, 17:10

FredG wrote:
The point is, Mr Cryns, there are no true facts available . Opinions and guesses should not be presented as fact.


I feel I must correct myself here. There is a fact available.

Q. Did Roman Soldiers Wear Red Tunics?

A, We don't know,
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FredG  United Kingdom
 
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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 27 Jun 2017, 17:51

Thanks for your corrections, FredG.

FredG wrote:Q. Did Roman Soldiers Wear Red Tunics?

A, We don't know,


We already knew this BEFORE Konrad posted this youtube movie, he discussed it with us (mr. Bos and me) when we met him at Crisis Antwerp last year.

Q: So why did Konrad still post this movie?
A: Because he is interested in the possible colors worn by the ordinary Roman legionaries and so are we.

Question to FredG:
Is there a specific color that is MORE probable to be worn by ordinary Roman legionaries than scarlet or crimson or red ochre or any other natural red color dye that is not too expensive?
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Mr. Cryns  Netherlands

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Posted by FredG on 27 Jun 2017, 18:02

Natural is a strong possibility in my opinion
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Posted by Beano Boy on 27 Jun 2017, 18:24

The 12th Legion wore red. I just watched Doctor Who,and he has a Time Machine! :mrgreen: BB
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Beano Boy  England
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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 27 Jun 2017, 18:26

FredG wrote:Natural is a strong possibility in my opinion


Do you mean 'natural red' or just 'natural'?
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Mr. Cryns  Netherlands

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Posted by FredG on 27 Jun 2017, 18:29

Natural
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FredG  United Kingdom
 
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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 27 Jun 2017, 18:45

Do you mean: natural color of linen or wool like off white/beige/light grey/sand-brown?
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Mr. Cryns  Netherlands

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Posted by Wiking on 27 Jun 2017, 18:49

Image
They are not pleased with me in the:
Titus´siege of Jerusalem.
Maybe I fit here more?
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Posted by FredG on 27 Jun 2017, 19:54

Mr. Cryns wrote:Do you mean: natural color of linen or wool like off white/beige/light grey/sand-brown?


Yes - a thousand shades of off-white. :-D
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Posted by Beano Boy on 27 Jun 2017, 19:59

Forget Hollywood, look to plants,and time periods.

Ancient Egyptians___Greeks ____ Romans, all had the means and know how.

Alkanna tinctona, Rubia tinctorium and Rubia peregrina grows in the Mediterranean region.
Dried crushed root ____boiled in water producing Red Dye,that would not fade out.
One dip and next moment lifted out. Instant colour. RED
The Ancient Roman Pliny the Elder, Natural History book 19 chapter 17.

So most certainly Red was easily available and the process was fowl smelling,cheap, but very quick.

Did the Romans wear a uniformity red?_____________ Perhaps,perhaps not. BB
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Beano Boy  England
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Posted by FredG on 27 Jun 2017, 20:36

Proof of capability is no proof of use as you well know BB. ( I'll refrain from stating the obvious example).
There were many other colours that were cheap to dye too.
Undyed is still the cheapest, and you don't get pink socks when you wash undyed together.
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FredG  United Kingdom
 
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Posted by Kekso on 22 Jul 2017, 16:32

FredG wrote:More importantly which would your wife want on HER floor


That one made my day :xd: :xd: :xd: Thank you FredG
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