Work in Progress

is this Sparta??? figure making

Posted by Phersu on 13 May 2017, 14:25

The first figure I've made with my new mannequins! :-D

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Despite it's actually the second finished... after this King Porsenna started second but finished yesterday!

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And I'd rather say only basicly completed, because despite unfinished I'll cast it this way too, before to transform in some kind of Leonida look alike!
Because it's nice this way too and is a very nice unusual pose which would be a shame and a waste if not used for other figures! ;-)



FIrst step, putting the mannequin in the right pose, this to test the joints which should allow the right bends... in some cases it would be necessary to file or cut a bit of resin to reach tight bends and very acute angles. ;-)

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Then I blocked the legs joints with a drop of glue, and filled the gaps recreating knees and ankles with putty.

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Finally I "smoothed and amalgamate" the joints with the rest of the mannequin with a layer of thick paint.

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Then I added sandals and greaves.

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Then the skirt with pteryges up to the belt.

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You see that I placed the arms upward to have more free space for sculpting, and that one hand and the head got pulled off from the internal supports... this can be a problem but simply avoidable with a dot of superglue.
By the other side this feature can be very helful to swap with other heads and hands, or even part or the whole arms and legs eventually! :winky:

Then I went ahead with the upper figure sculpting, placing the arms in the right position and blocking and sculpting the joints just like the legs.

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And finally the hands and head which are replaced with different ones and partly resculpted.

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I will cast this figure to use it as it is, and transform it in different ways... starting from the cloack and a suitable beard and haircut for a Leonida! ;-)
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Phersu  Italy
 
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Posted by Ben90 on 13 May 2017, 15:31

These mannequins seem to work quite well!
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Ben90  Germany
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Posted by sberry on 13 May 2017, 18:44

Ben90 wrote:These mannequins seem to work quite well!

Yes, and it is very interesting to watch the modeling process step by step.
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sberry  Germany
 
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Posted by Phersu on 13 May 2017, 20:02

Than you my friends! ;-)

sberry wrote:Yes, and it is very interesting to watch the modeling process step by step.


Indeed they do, especially for strange unusual poses which are not so simple to achieve, while keeping the right proportions... like this case.
I guess these mannequins will work very well also for most close combat couples, and sure even better for multiple figures stick together, like a wounded carried from a rescuer for example! :thumbup:
While for more usual and simple poses I think other base bodies or simple existing figures are probably more suitable and quicker... and cheaper too! :winky:
Of course there are pros and cons, first the difficult of casting such mannequins... :sweatdrop: but the features I expected are all working fine, sure the unwanted bending or or accidental breaking of joints are not a big problem anymore, as it was with other metal skeletons I tried before!
And perhaps with some practice and experiments I will get to improve the whole thing even more. ;-)
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Phersu  Italy
 
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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 18 May 2017, 12:11

Very nice work Phersu, well done. :thumbup:

What putty did you use here to build up from the resin body?
I still have problems adding small details to a body or underground.
It simply does not stick well and falls of again, even if I use the most sticky proportions of green stuff.
Looking at your tiny straps around the legs, it all looks so simple :drool:
Is that your long experience or a combination with the right putty?
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Mr. Cryns  Netherlands

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Posted by Beano Boy on 18 May 2017, 14:29

I love all the work.It reminds me fondly of the Puppet shows from my childhood days. Well done. BB
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Posted by Phersu on 18 May 2017, 20:50

Thank you again my friends! :-D

Mr. Cryns wrote:Very nice work Phersu, well done. :thumbup:

What putty did you use here to build up from the resin body?
I still have problems adding small details to a body or underground.
It simply does not stick well and falls of again, even if I use the most sticky proportions of green stuff.
Looking at your tiny straps around the legs, it all looks so simple :drool:
Is that your long experience or a combination with the right putty?


I use the brown Tamiya quick epoxy putty, which I think is stickier than Green Stuff, at least during the first 5-10 minutes...
But sometimes I have the same problem on very smooth surfaces... and I suspect especially also on the first castings, when some traces of the relasing wax may transfer to the figure surface, and may happens untill the mold cavity is completely clear.

In most cases is enough to clean well the surface, otherwise usually i put a tiny drop of superglue to fix the putty in one point before to sculpt it... eventually adding other grip points, especially to add long thin bits.
Otherwise in some cases I even scrap the surface, or make it rougher with a cutter or a file to add a superficial grip like on the plastc figures.

For various straps, and especially for the sandals strings, in this case perhaps was more practical a very fine thread and some glue, but this time I made them with putty, I act a bit practiced with putty and they came out still good enough!

You are right! :thumbup:
The right combination of putty and-or time (hardening ;-) ) can make things much easier or nearly impossible... I still used Tamiya, but for such particular task like long thin putty threads I think the Green Stuff works better, however I suppose much depends also from the hand of the sculptor. ;-)
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Phersu  Italy
 
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Posted by Phersu on 19 Jun 2017, 18:03

I solwly went ahead in the little pauses from other works, using the spare bits of putty left from other figures, while waiting it hardened on other figures... and I finally completed the Leonidas version of this figure!

First I shortened a bit the arms, as you wisely suggested... :thumbup:
Just a matter of less one millimeter to correct it, and now it look right! ;-)
Then some little corrections and refinishing before to make the mold... once again... (so I learn not to hurry too much!) :xd:

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Then I made some further little changes to a resin copy, add the cloack, resculpt some face features (trying) to make it look more like Leonida and enhance the wrath expression, and finally sculpted the hair and beard.

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This time is not in the mold yet... it will wait a few days (I have to finish other figures first) in case of eventual further corrections I didn't noticed yet... I hope not, but I'm always counting on your constructive critics and helpful hints! :thumbup:

Now I have to make the poor Ambassador of Xerses... :xd:
But I'm not sure how to do it... any idea or suggestion? ;-)

I'd like if he could still resemble the comic and the film characters, which is a quite impressive look, despite probably historically incorrect. :eh:
Something in between the artistic fantasy look imagined from Frank Miller, and what a real Persian Ambassador could look like (which I have no precise idea how could be).

More or less like this figure of Leonida I made, which is not exactely like the movie but not so different neither... just a bit of basic "spartan" panoply more, instead than just leather knickers!
Which is... let's say just a bit... "funny" :xd: like pointed out repeatedly in the parody "Meet the Spartans"! :mrgreen:

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Phersu  Italy
 
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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 21 Jun 2017, 10:30

Dear Phersu,

Leonidas looks very impressive now. Keeping in mind he is a mixture between a historical figure, a free fighter and a creature from a fantasy movie, I have no further remarks. But its a weird position: a Spartan doing a high kick while holding his hoplon shield. But that's part of that movie I suppose. I have seen it many years ago and it made my wife being a little bit up-noxious, ruling the house while shouting 'THIS - IS - SPARTA' to me all the time.... so I will not watch that movie again in her presence :oops:

Now about the Ambassador. You should look for the word 'Satrap' which is a Persian gouvernor of a province. I don't know anymore what the man looks like in that movie. Also look for 'Achaemenid' which was the Royal family line in Persia during Leonidas' period.

All af them have a medium beard and wear the tiara-headdress.

Concerning the costume and hairdress of the Achaemenid satraps, there was quite a lot of development: during Cyrus the Greats rule the Persians still looked a bit like Babylonians and Assyrians wearing longer hair and long beards and uncomfortable dresses and remember most of the contemporary images depict them in ceremonial dress.

During the 6th, 5th and 4th century BC the Persian costume changed: the Persians adopted the Median costume, sufficient for horse riding because of the shorter dress and trousers. Also the beards and hair were shortened until, by Alexander the Greats time, the fashion appeared to be completely shaved face and short hair and Greek style garments were adopted more and more.

Xerxes and Leonidas were somewhere in between: 480 BC.
So I try to post some examples of Satrapal and Royal dress of that period here.
I only know about historic Achaemenids, I don't know anything about the one in the movie so thats up to you:

Satrap from the Nereid Monument
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A Greek depiction of King Darius (about 490 BC?)
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Central figure in purple robe:
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Tribazos Satrap of Lydia 380 BC
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Mr. Cryns  Netherlands

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Posted by Phersu on 12 Jul 2017, 11:23

Thank you for the appreciations and good hints Mr Cyrns! :thumbup:
Like for Leonidas, I decided to make something between probable historical and fantasy, after all it represent a strong visual impact movie scene rather than a historical reconstruction... And I quite like Miller's vision ot the Ambassador, so I based this figure mainly on the costumes of the film and cartoon, with few little changes... which in case of a (Nubian?) Persian Ambassador perhaps could be historically possible... and perhaps not so wrong neither after all... sure not so improbable (or at least historically arguable) like Leonida's and Spartans "leather harness and pants" :xd:

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However finally also the Xerses Ambassador is done!

[img]https://sites.google.com/site/phersuminiatures/Home/next-releases/sparta%21%201%20600x.jpg[img]

[/img]https://sites.google.com/site/phersuminiatures/Home/next-releases/sparta%21%202%20600x.jpg[/img]

Next step: Sparta's bottomless pit scenery!

P.S. I don't know why the firts image with the Ambassador master upload, while I can't see the other two images of both figures on a basic provisory scenery...
I posted the images directly on my website instead than on Photobucket, after their recent changes of policy.
I can'y understand what's wrong, I tried to reduce the size and upload again but I still can't see them in the preview.
In case you can see them at this link:
https://sites.google.com/site/phersumin ... t-releases
along with some other of my recent works...
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Phersu  Italy
 
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Posted by bilsonius on 12 Jul 2017, 22:41

It is worth noting that, in addition to the Oracle's warning that a Spartan king must die if the city was to survive, the Spartans also realised that they had incurred the wrath of Hermes, the Messenger of the Gods and patron of heralds and envoys, who were considered sacrosanct by both Greeks and 'barbarians'.
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Posted by Beano Boy on 13 Jul 2017, 08:35

Very good to see your new pictures here on your interesting topic. :thumbup:
One must never lose heart,and give up posting.
For the artist author,moving forwards in a most positive attitude is what really counts.BB
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Beano Boy  England
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Posted by Phersu on 21 Jul 2017, 20:06

Thank you my friends!
I just posted the painted figures on the base in the galleries!
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Phersu  Italy
 
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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 22 Jul 2017, 12:09

Hello Phersu,

Nice ambassador.

Phersu wrote:P.S. I don't know why the first image with the Ambassador master upload, while I can't see the other two images of both figures on a basic provisory scenery...
I posted the images directly on my website instead than on Photobucket, after their recent changes of policy.
I can'y understand what's wrong, I tried to reduce the size and upload again but I still can't see them in the preview.


You captured your second picture in double opening code: [img] [img]
You captured your third picture in double closing code: [/img] [/img]
Its just a matter of one / (slash)
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Mr. Cryns  Netherlands

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