Work in Progress

Tyre 332 BC

Posted by Mr. Cryns on 24 Mar 2017, 10:12

Félix wrote:This is the small new colony that begins its foundation.


The King, governor and civilians of Tyre wish the founders of our new Colony much prosperity by the developing of their city and surrounding fields.

Felix am I hallucinating? :shock:

This is great and funny, to see exact copies of my wall sections. I don't know that pink foam but judging the crispy look of it, and the way you sculpted that tile tower roof with it, it must be fine material. I think you succeeded completely in your attempt and its clear you are a skillful modeler.

Talking about this kind of model fortifications I would like to share with you two other similar projects that were, together with mine, all developed in the same period, as it looks like.

GAMING ALEXANDERS SIEGE OF TYRE:

Philip Viverito from U.S.A. made a huge, fantastic 28mm model of Tyre for gaming purposes, owned by Tom Young.

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These gentlemen did a great job by building such a large scenery and fleet. It is all build in the 8th century BC period style with those typical triangular crenelations as its depicted on Assyrian reliefs. Alexanders fleet looks like its been made of paper ship models and some resin ones.

http://tidesofwargaming.blogspot.nl/201 ... -tyre.html


ANCIENT GREEK CITY WALLS

ARCHAEO.SYS developed a digital 3D system of ancient Greek citywalls:

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It is clearly based upon the information from both Osprey books, the same sources I used when I started to build some of my wall sections. It looks like a very nice system but it is difficult to find out if this is for computer purpose only or if it is possible to print it in 3D for tabletopgaming or modelism.

https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/exte ... s-towers-a
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Mr. Cryns  Netherlands

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Posted by Félix on 24 Mar 2017, 11:35

Thank you very much again.

The truth is that I was some shame to show my work. I even thought that I could bother you.
Your words comfort me very much.
I am very excited about this project, but I don't have so much time to spend as I'd like.
Every little moment I have, dedicated it to this. My wife and my children joke a little on me...

My next challenge is the painting the walls and towers. And the truth is that it will be the first to do so. We'll see what the result.

Probably arise me new questions in modeling or painted above, that if you don't inconvenience ask you Mr. Cryns.

Please continue with this project which has created so many illusions in many people

Very grateful to truth, grandmaster!!!!
Félix  Spain
 
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Posted by Félix on 24 Mar 2017, 18:27

Mr. Cryns, personally, I prefer, with no doubt, your own walls and towers.

Certainly, those works you show are goods, but yours are more realistic, al least for me, with big difference.

Allow me ask you a new question? :oops:

Image

Can you tell me the sizes of this piece

Tank you very much.
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Posted by Peter on 25 Mar 2017, 22:54

Really nice progress here Mr C! :thumbup:
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Peter  Belgium

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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 27 Mar 2017, 11:02

Thanks for your nice reply Peter :-)

Felix, this is an opportunity to improve my original design.

When you zoom in at the map of Mantinea in central Peloponnese and study the gates carefully, you will understand what I mean.

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The gate should look like this...

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...instead of this...

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... with the aim to make attackers' shields (worn left arm) useless.

Here are my measurements:

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As you see its not a 90 degree corner but something between 93 and 96.
That is because to add to the circular shape of the whole town or fortress.

Because of mis-measurements I made this segment all by all too narrow.
First of all there was almost no space left for cutting the walls under an angle with the bottom being wider than the top. Also I should have made the frontal wall (in which the gate is situated) not 6,2cm but 7 or 8cm wide.
6.1cm is the minimum to allow a usual gaming element to be moved against that gate. But mutual wall and tower sections with projecting shapes and rocks turned out to block part of the way towards that gate when we start to build variations into the fortifications in front of this gate.

So I invite you to make my design the other way around, make the gate-wall section a bit wider, make the walls a bit deeper and then show us the result so I can copy your design afterwards when it turnes out to look correct :mrgreen:
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Mr. Cryns  Netherlands

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Posted by Félix on 27 Mar 2017, 13:50

Ok Mr. Cryns, I understand what do you mean.

I´ll try to do the changes and then will see the result.

I would must find an styrofoam table with enought measurements for get it.

So when I get it, I´ll try charge you for the copyright 8) :-D

Any way, jokes apart, I never tire of thanking your invaluable help. :yeah:

Best Regards.
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Posted by sberry on 27 Mar 2017, 14:15

Mr. Cryns wrote:It is clearly based upon the information from both Osprey books, the same sources I used when I started to build some of my wall sections. It looks like a very nice system but it is difficult to find out if this is for computer purpose only or if it is possible to print it in 3D for tabletopgaming or modelism.

https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-models/exte ... s-towers-a


Indeed, this looks very promising, but it is a bit difficult to figure out what they really offer. In the end, it seems that one could use these files for 3D printing also.

Mr. Cryns wrote:This is so great Mr. Berry! Thanks for the link to the Maagan Michael Ship. I did not know this one at all!


So one question remains: Have you ordered already your ticket to Marseille for 2018?
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sberry  Germany
 
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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 28 Mar 2017, 17:55

sberry wrote:So one question remains: Have you ordered already your ticket to Marseille for 2018?

No I have not. Have you? It could be of real interest to me to see such an event. 8)
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Mr. Cryns  Netherlands

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Posted by sberry on 29 Mar 2017, 06:27

Mr. Cryns wrote:No I have not. Have you? It could be of real interest to me to see such an event. 8)


I haven't either. Perhaps I should, but in the end a lack of time probably will prevent this trip, like so often.
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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 30 Mar 2017, 10:00

CASTING CARGO

Five years ago I stuffed the hull of a souvenir shop cargo ship (bought in Greece) with handmade cargo. The amfora's were made of glass beads and metal rings:

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I even tried to sculpt amfora's with ears but as for most beginners, this turned out to be too big in scale:

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Back then it took many days to fill up one ship.
Today it takes one day to fill up many ships:

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A method of making a two part mold without temporary clay bed:

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The amfora strip is glued horizontally to the wall of the molding box.
Then the rubber is poured in until halfway the model:

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As you see a little bit of rubber has to be cut away before pouring the second rubber half. But the advantage is the surface does not have to be cleaned from clay, which was a very hard task because of the amfora ears and the ropes.

Amfora's were loaded inside the ship in ergonomic ways, using the hollow hull shape as a 'bed':

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Straw or twigs were used as packing material and so were the ropes running through the ears.

So the amfora cargo has to follow the shape of the hull. For that reason I made those amforastrips already tied together by ropes:

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By cutting the bottoms of the amfora's the shape of my flat shiphull is simulated as being hollow and deeper:

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But as you see these prefab strips don't follow the shape of the curved hull. And also the pre-casted ropes are dominating the impression of the amfora's too much to my taste. :(

So I started all over and casted two new series of amfora's:

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A temporary clay bed is inserted in my worn out try&error shiphull:

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Including the ones that will be placed under the aft deck, about 44 amfora's are needed to fill up the back halve of the hull:

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Still using the clay bed for positioning, the different rows of amfora's were cut in length:

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The claybed is removed by a twig bed made of Magic Sculpt:

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A single part mold and a first cast:

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One halve of its bottom is sculpted diagonally otherwise I could not get it inside the hull anymore after the mast-support beams are fastened:

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Mr. Cryns  Netherlands

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Posted by Ben90 on 30 Mar 2017, 15:21

Great! Looks like an awful amount of work... my respect!
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Ben90  Germany
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Posted by stenfalk on 30 Mar 2017, 16:26

I can not help but repeat myself over and over again. Your ships and their cargo are absolutely remarkable and great model building art. A quality, a love for detail, a historical accuracy - it's a pleasure to see such a thing. I hope someday it succeeds me to be able to see these beautiful works in real...
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Posted by sberry on 30 Mar 2017, 17:42

wow! That's really impressive!
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Posted by Kostis Ornerakis on 30 Mar 2017, 18:30

Wow!! So clever and inventive solutions! :notworthy: A few months ago you made questions on molding, and look at your job now !! :love:
My dear friend: respect!
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Kostis Ornerakis  Greece
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Posted by Beano Boy on 31 Mar 2017, 00:06

On Copyright
having an analytic mind,upon certain things I tend to look at things as the Law see`s them and not as any individual would see them. It is all about building a case history that can be presented and protected under law. You can simple place copyright on your boat in letters which affords you very little protection in open court.

Mr Cryns, I write Children`s Story Books,under other names,and those tiny books are protected under Copyright Law, and so are protected for 60 years after my death.
In parts what I do I will advise you to consider after all it is your gain and protection not mine .

Place a name or symbol or both upon the item in places that come apart and the word Copyright can be included. Even a crafty mistake can be overlooked by the average eye,but you know its there so you could include one.Photograph all your masters and how you made them,showing your special marks, symbols, names. Print the Photoes out,and date them in written form on the back and sign it,and get three witnesses or more to sign and date these too . Write out a letter declaring Copyright on your item and describe those items and each part ,then get your witnesses to sign it and date it in turn, After you have signed and dated it. They must be present during photographing and the production of your photographs and the writing of this document. That should be no problem in this day and age.
You can inclose everything in a brown envelope which they can witness,and mail it to yourself. The Stamp and date from the Postal Service is another form of legal evidence.

If you do this what have you achieved ?

Well what you have produced in front of witnesses is a Legal Document that is stamped and should be produced as evidence if recasting has taken place by those who are out for a fast buck! This will stand up as clear cut evidence in any Court proving you have Copyright,and added protection is you can call your witnesses to further swear to it as a 100% fact. This will more than stand up in any Court in any country because of signings and dates.
The more evidence you can include the better, and in Court you can call on Administrators from Benno`s Figure Forum, to provide further evidence. Of course you can seek legal advice on this issue,but that means parting with cash. You need do nothing at all if you choose.

I have represented in open Court, Cases, brought before Honourable Judges in Norwich, where I defended clients for free.I did this by producing evidence,and this is what I recommend you do. I rang rings round so called legal profesonals with letters after their names and helped win every case. I was hated by these legal gentlemen of the Establishment,but I laughed at them because they worked for gain and I for nothing.

helping you Mr .Cryns__________ am I thus paranoid? BB
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Posted by Beano Boy on 31 Mar 2017, 01:57

I had another look at Pirates a Topic opened by Alex, and I realised that it was I who hinted info in comments there on Copyright Protection. BB
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Posted by Kostis Ornerakis on 31 Mar 2017, 05:57

@BB:
You are a gentleman. I am so happy reading your advices. :-D
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Posted by huib on 31 Mar 2017, 08:18

You are a perfectionist Mr. Cryns! Normal people would have been perfectly happy with your first version of the amphora's, but you go one step further, again. Beautiful work, and the casting techniques are very inspiring.
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huib  Netherlands
 
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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 01 Apr 2017, 17:34

Thank you so much my friends, for your nice replies.

Ben90 wrote:an awful amount of work

Yes it is. This only increases my respect for people like Fredericus Rex and Imperial Chief who do this kind of work in a professional way all day long.

stenfalk wrote:I hope someday it succeeds me to be able to see these beautiful works in real...

You will Stenfalk, you will. 8) And then you have to paint it and attach all the small ropes. :mrgreen:

Kostis Ornerakis wrote:A few months ago you made questions on molding, and look at your job now !!

Yes I was thinking about you when I casted that single part mold for the amfora load. Remember you explained me the cylindric mold technique and how to fill up small cut-throughs with temporary membranes? Back then I did not succeed in practicing it, but last week your lessons were of great value to me. :-D


huib wrote:You are a perfectionist Mr. Cryns! Normal people would have been perfectly happy

Thank you so much Huib. But are you one of these Normal people yourself? :-D
I don't think so :mrgreen: For example: who was the one that influenced my fascination for history and modeling most during the early years of life?
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Mr. Cryns  Netherlands

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Posted by stenfalk on 01 Apr 2017, 18:14

Mr. Cryns wrote:You will Stenfalk, you will. 8) And then you have to paint it and attach all the small ropes. :mrgreen:


:winky: :winky: :winky:

Now I am excited as a little child... ;-)
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