Work in Progress

Tyre 332 BC

Posted by Mr. Cryns on 06 Jun 2017, 20:51

Kostis Ornerakis wrote:trimmed here and there

I had a hard time deciding if I should trim no flesh and bulbs at all and let 'the customer' do all the work himself, or trim, cut and drill all of it before shipping.
I could psychologically not bear the idea of sending all those very raw casts with flesh plates as big as the rubber molds square blocks size because often, casted parts break or get damaged during trimming and cutting from the 'sprue-sheet'. At my home I can replace them for another cast. Once shipped I can not. So thats why I tried to do most of the trimming myself.

Kostis Ornerakis wrote:The dowell shall penetrate through the sides of the boat. I think also braces could fasten here.

That looks like a proper solution. Good idea to use it for the braces too.

Kostis Ornerakis wrote:One edge inside and one outside the boat.

I am not sure what you mean by 'one edge inside the boat'.
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Mr. Cryns  Netherlands

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Posted by Kostis Ornerakis on 06 Jun 2017, 22:02

At your plan "rigging of the sail" for the Uluburun ship you attach a block at the end of the sail. A line(brace) pass through the block and has 2 edges. I am thinking to fasten one end in a notch on the piece of dowell which is outside the ship. And the other edge fasten inside ( with some extra rope hanging).
I am not sure where to attach the sheet lines. In your plan it seems like a good solution is the bench near the mast. May be I could attach them also at the dowell for brails/braces.
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Kostis Ornerakis  Greece
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Posted by marc zijp on 07 Jun 2017, 00:04

I follow this topic with much attention, although it's not my period nor is the sea my battlefield of interest. Which is a bit strange, because I live very close to the North Sea. This remark brings me to a small question in between, if the gentlemen allow me? Mr. Cryns: do you live by any chance in Den Helder, just as I do?
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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 07 Jun 2017, 10:02

Kostis Ornerakis wrote:A line(brace) pass through the block and has 2 edges.

Okay thanks for your clarification. I understand it now. I think it is called rope's end instead of rope's edge ( I thought you were talking about that dowel/horizontal beam). But your plan sounds perfect. :yeah:

About attaching the sheet lines: it depends how yard and sail are positioned: transverse, diagonally or in line with the ship. So I have to leave that up to you.

Do you think it would be possible to soften the lowest corner-tips by heating the whole sail in the oven and bend them into the direction the sheets run?

marc zijp wrote:you live by any chance in Den Helder, just as I do?

Dear Marc I live in Amsterdam.
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Mr. Cryns  Netherlands

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Posted by Kostis Ornerakis on 09 Jun 2017, 17:52

My favorite part of the barge is the sail. :-D
Instead of priming I have washed it with the same colour. ;-)
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I have to work with the crew now. :-D
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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 10 Jun 2017, 10:16

Kostis it is hard to believe this object was the same one that was made on my dining table. :P I see details I did not know myself! But its because you did some very precise trimming :yeah: The horizontal pole/beam you added (though partly obscured) looks good and a very credible solution for a rowing vessel equipped with a sail. It will be perfect for fastening buntlines/brails and braces. I should make one myself and add it to the resin model ;-) A very good addition of yours. And the yard is bended so extremely :eh: . Did you do that? It looks great. :yeah:

Kostis Ornerakis wrote:I have to work with the crew now.

You make me very curious ;-)

Meanwhile I am building a new boat, much smaller than this one. It can be rowed by just one man.
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Posted by Kostis Ornerakis on 10 Jun 2017, 17:25

Mr. Cryns wrote:And the yard is bended so extremely :eh: . Did you do that? It looks great. :yeah:

Do you think it would be possible to soften the lowest corner-tips by heating the whole sail in the oven and bend them into the direction the sheets run?

I followed your instructions. :-D The only difference is that I heated topically with my wife's hair dryer.

Mr. Cryns wrote:Meanwhile I am building a new boat, much smaller than this one. It can be rowed by just one man.

Fantastic news! :love: Can you read my mind? :-D
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Kostis Ornerakis  Greece
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Posted by Carlos on 11 Jun 2017, 04:14

Amazing :shock: :shock: :shock:
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Posted by Kostis Ornerakis on 11 Jun 2017, 20:17

These are the first 3 figures.
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8 rowers remaining! :-D
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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 13 Jun 2017, 09:20

Kostis thanks for showing your crew, this will give me new idea's too :yeah:
Your use of the Orion head means we can expect some Orion rowers?

Kostis Ornerakis wrote:Can you read my mind?
:-D
No not at all. You want more boats?

I have three shipsboats or fishermenboats under construction. Different sizes for 1, 2 and 6 men crews:

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Image
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Posted by Kostis Ornerakis on 13 Jun 2017, 11:55

The new boats are wonderful. :love:

Mr. Cryns wrote:Your use of the Orion head means we can expect some Orion rowers?


No but please wait for 1-2 days. :oops:

Mr. Cryns wrote:No not at all. You want more boats?


I am afraid YES. ;-) But we'll talk after my running wips. :-D
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Posted by DickerThomas on 13 Jun 2017, 15:33

Great and very intresting.. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Posted by Kostis Ornerakis on 14 Jun 2017, 08:12

There are 3 sets of rowers to my knoledge. A set from Orion, a set from Frankzett and finally a 3D printed from Shapeways.(Panzer vs Tanks). With the new prices in Shapeways DON'T try even to search for the last. :( :oops: :eh: :xd:
The problem with the Orion set is that the arms need adjustments. Frankzett's set has a clever solution for the hands, but is rather a slim figure WITH a bench casted with her. :(
So after some time consuming and unsuccesfull experiments, :mad: I exchanged emails with Mr.Cryns.
That was really inspiring, because I have the idea after them. To take the advantages from every one. :sweatdrop: And as usual the simplest is the best. :-D

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Posted by sberry on 14 Jun 2017, 08:35

It is always a pleasure to look at the posts in this thread: Kostis' project is making great progress, and the prospect of more ships by Mr. Cryns is awesome!

Meanwhile, I am also the proud owner of one of these ships, but I have presented it in the "my latest purchase" thread - not here in the WIP section, because I have no progress whatsoever to present.

Talking about rowers, I have the sets by Orion and by Frank Ziegler, although both have been never used yet in any of my projects. It will be interesting to see how they fit together. The Panzer vs. Tankls set is ... well, the price of €901.44 must be a joke, doesn't it? But besides the cost, this set is simply unusable for antiquity: Those rowers have shackles at their legs, which fits the modern cliche that they were slaves chained to their ships - and that's one of Hollywood's fairy tales.
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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 15 Jun 2017, 13:29

sberry wrote: I have presented it in the "my latest purchase" thread

Many thanks for that :yeah:

Dear Kostis and sberry, thanks for discussing the rowers issue.

sberry wrote:unusable for antiquity: Those rowers have shackles at their legs, which fits the modern cliche that they were slaves chained to their ships - and that's one of Hollywood's fairy tales.

Yes I agree but I thought that Panzer vs. Tankls set is designed for Mediterranean Renaissance Galley's using slaves (I don't know about chains in that era)

Kostis Ornerakis wrote:To take the advantages from every one. And as usual the simplest is the best.

Kostis :-D thank you so much for this very good and credible solution! :notworthy: I did not think about this.

I tried those same rowers in my prototype boat:

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Where 2 Orion rowers occupy the width of the boat, 4 Frankzetrowers can be placed. A very little difference in scale and size makes a huge difference for my boat: with the Orion crew its a large shipsboat. With Frankzetts crew its suddenly a small galley:

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Frankzetts rowers fit this boat pretty well but leave enough space for a wooden walkway over the benches like this:

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Even my smallest boat, supposed to be rowed by just one or two men, can easily be crewed by a double row of these metal figures:

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I think these metal figures are perfect for the small, crammed space inside a galley with several levels for the rowers. Also their seats/benches make them perfect for that. I wish I could turn back time and add these inside of my 160 crew trireme. :(

But I had another idea when investigating the question of the rowing crews: Look once more at these re-enactors rowing a replica of the Argo :

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All of them have their feet on the bench in front of them, just like these Indian fishermen do:

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I am fascinated by this Indian fishingboat since it is so primitive and gives a very good impression of traditional rowing style. This whole boat is build to pass the high oceanic waves crashing at the beach, which is not necessary at all for the Mediterranean. But still: the cargo is in the middle and all rowers in the front which reminds me of a Roman relief depicting a 2nd cent. AD river boat with the cargo in the centre too but the crew in the back of it:

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I based this Gallo-Roman ship on that:

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So I wonderd if the Frankzett rowers, having their legs stretched forward already, could be used with their feet on the benches before them after removing their seats and feat-rests. But most of the rowers in these pictures have their legs spread a littlebit or even a lot. Time to cut and bend one of those metal rowers.

I started building that primitive Indian ocean worthy fishing boat already but did it in too much of a hurry. :eh: :( ending up like this:

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The frame was so a-symmetric I decided to destroyed it and make it all over again.
Now I have five different sizes in boats:

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The one I made last week underwent many small changes and improvements. I removed both front top-boards, the two boards backward elevating from the board edges will stay:

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More ribs were added and shaped in raw, lively pieces of 'vintage'-wood of which so many cheap traditional vessels were build. Ribs all over makes it possible to use this boat without the front- and aft decks so there is possibility for variety once more.

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The front- and aft decks were shortened so there is more space for rowing crew and cargo:
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I will cast this boat only after I have some more prototypes ready so I can do it in one go. I am getting exhausted of changing my home studio from woodwork bench into chemical laboratory and sculpting studio again and again so I try to stay to one of them as long as I can.

Image
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Posted by Wiking on 15 Jun 2017, 15:10

Great work!

None of the metal rowers - let me say nice is an eye catcher.
The four in the Gallo-Roman ship are fare much nicer in pose!

I ran into the same trouble with my Dio: Opfer für Neptun.
Trying with Dragon, Preiser and Waterloo segment figures to do rowers in action very first.
With no pose I was satisfied. So I simply let they all sit and wait for one.

1. So you have to do a set of rowers.
2. Rowers in a little bit different pose. No mono culture :-D .
3. For right and left side ( Non nautical :oops: ).
3a. A few with stripes at the back for point No.:6 :mrgreen: .
4. And a double rowers. With different angle of the arms to work the paddle.
5. A drummer.
6. Very important, and this is new, a women! who do crack the whip :mrgreen: .

Your pic with the Indian fishing boat is useful. I have to store it.
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Posted by Kostis Ornerakis on 18 Jun 2017, 16:20

Well, I feel like Columbus if he knew Vikings discovered America before him.
Not eye catching at all.
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So I turned to this:
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Before anybody asks why using Orion's resin copies, I have 2 advantages. Much easier trimming and painting and slight modifications by angling torsos and heads.
Of course after the boat is painted and oars are painted and in place, some small modifications with the biceps of the rowers will be needed.
With this post my contribution to my very good friend's thread comes to an end.
Mr. Cryns thank you for hosting, it was a privilege and a pleasure. :notworthy:
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Posted by Ben90 on 18 Jun 2017, 16:33

These copies are looking great! They fit the boat very well...
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Posted by Wiking on 18 Jun 2017, 17:05

These jaundice seamen look promising. :yeah:
But they are in urgent need for spinach for there biceps. :mrgreen:
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Posted by Kostis Ornerakis on 18 Jun 2017, 17:21

Wiking wrote:These jaundice seamen
But they are in urgent need for spinach for there biceps. :mrgreen:


I hope the Preiser lady have some in her bag! :mrgreen:
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