Work in Progress

Tyre 332 BC

Posted by Ben90 on 02 Mar 2017, 18:39

I love this topic! Always great updates...
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Ben90  Germany
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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 08 Mar 2017, 11:18

Thank you all for your nice comments :-D

sberry wrote: first model ever of the Uluburun ship

To be more precise I try to make a Classic Greek version for the 6th to 4th century BC and an older Phoenician version for the 10th to 6th century BC. The real Uluburun version of this ship must represent the bronze age around 1400 BC and so I can not properly use it for my own project. But if someone has some specific interest, I would love to make a third version with the typical bronze age stearing oars, mast top and sail with bottom boom.

Beano Boy wrote: Lego bricks i remember seeing it somewhere before,but where?
Thats correct Beano boy you were the first one suggesting the use of these bricks to me. But out of fear to be ridiculized by one of our moderators (I will not say which one but he wrote this to me last week:

Peter wrote:Paul and you can play with lego bricks very well!
(very humiliating isn't it?) I hesitated with using the lego bricks for half a year until our friend Phersu made clear to me again the advantages compared to the hardboard and hotgluegun method.

Kekso wrote:I really enjoy watching this step by step casting progress.
Thats great to hear, today I have some more for you.

Ben90 wrote:I love this topic! Always great updates...

Today I think it must be mentioned that much of what I am doing here at this moment, has been done by Ben90 in the past. No, not as extended as this topic is becoming, but Ben did it all before me already: make his own wooden galleys and siege machines from scratch, sculpt figures, paint extremely well, all very inspiring to me and very interesting to see it for the first time for 'newcomers' to our forum who are interested in ancient subjects like these:
Roman bireme: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11951&hilit=ben+bireme
Carthagenian/Punic/Phoenician warship: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11951&p=149587#p149587
Vae Victis: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11951&p=149587#p149587
Trebuchet: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9767&p=118094#p118094

The commercial break ends here ;-)

Meanwhile I have been working on the Uluburun ship. For the Phoenician version I need a wooden horsehead like depicted at some Assyrian reliefs:

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Remarkable to see the horse does have a hairlock at the front but no mane at the back of the neck:

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I tried some different materials and sizes. One of these is made by my wife but I won't say which one.

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Ending up with a brown stuff sculpt:

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Imitation of wood structure:

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Besides the head for the Phoenician ships front, I also made another curve for the back of the Classical Greek ship version:

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And now comes the cargo again:
copper and bronze ingot plates. The white ones are cut out of a plastic cork covered with magic sculpt. the black ones are milliput wrapped steel wire covered by brown stuff:

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Ivory:

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Packages of wool and fabric including the famous Purple cloth from Tyre.

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Baskets for iron ore, almonds, grain and small pottery:

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With a little help of Fredericus Rex I made another range of baskets out of steel, iron, copper and brass wire and sewing thread:

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A scaffold made of steel pins in a plastic cork is interwoven with copper wire:

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On top a separately woven ring is attached with superglue:

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Sewing thread is tried to replace copper wire:

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For the bottom I used metal wire again:

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The thinner the wire the better it works:

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For the scaffold I used 0,3mm wire from a garbagebag clip, for the weaving 0,1mm wire from an electricity wire.

Because I wanted to try make a basket without glueing, I started to do some real traditional dutch basketweaving:

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Of course my fingers are much to large for this microscopic craftsmanship so this little guy did much of the work for me:

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An earlyer try with 0.4mm brass wire framework which turned out too heavy and stiff for a proper weaving of the basket edge:

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Some final results and my conclusion is: the thinner the wire of the frame, the better the final result.

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Mr. Cryns  Netherlands

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Posted by Kostis Ornerakis on 08 Mar 2017, 13:44

Fantastic work with the baskets. :thumbup: I was waiting for this presentation, when I noticed your question to Fredericus Rex. ;-)
If I may suggest, a wire ring could be made from thin wires the same way you make tree trunks. :oops:
The wooden horse head is wonderful too! :thumbup:
Last but not least, thank you for making me familiar with Ben90 excellent job with the ancient ships. My respect to you for referring his work and to him for his craftsmanship. :notworthy:
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Kostis Ornerakis  Greece
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Posted by Carlos on 08 Mar 2017, 15:10

Impressive, have not words...really impressive. :shock:
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Posted by Beano Boy on 08 Mar 2017, 15:25

Splendid work, :thumbup: You certainly are a hive of artistict activity! :thumbup:
I wish you have much success with your boats, and other stuff.
:mrgreen: " Watch out for U Boats!" :coffee: BB
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Beano Boy  England
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Posted by Graeme on 08 Mar 2017, 16:40

Your merchant ships cargo is looking very good Mr. Cryns. Great work on the ingots and ivory and baskets, and the amphorae look fabulous. But I have to say your bolts of rolled and folded cloth are exquisite. I can imagine people drooling over these as loads for various wagons.
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Posted by stenfalk on 08 Mar 2017, 18:36

If you thought modeling and figure painting is crazy, wait until you see the range of ideas and skills of Mr. Cryns! My breath is taken away. Wonderful. :yeah:

Plan change: I had already informed you that I would like to hijack a ship from you. Since today it will be a loaded ship! :oops: :oops: :oops:
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Posted by sberry on 20 Mar 2017, 10:07

Hi guys,
I just came across this story here:
http://www.tagesschau.de/videoblog/nahost_ganz_nah/rekonstruktion-antikes-schiff-101.html
It’s in German, sorry, but I can give you a short summary: A boat that has sunk 2500 years ago at the coast of Israel is being reconstructed. The goal is to participate in an international regatta of reconstructed ancient ships, which is to take place next year in Marseille. This is really a fascinating idea IMHO.
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Posted by huib on 20 Mar 2017, 10:21

Great work on the baskets and other stowage, Mr.Cryns! :yeah: You are lucky to have this kabouter to help you.

Mr. Cryns wrote: One of these [horseheads] is made by my wife but I won't say which one.

The second from left.
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huib  Netherlands
 
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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 20 Mar 2017, 18:38

This is so great Mr. Berry! Thanks for the link to the Maagan Michael Ship. I did not know this one at all! I love you for this, man! :love:

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Those Israelian shipwrights did a great job!
500BC is still relevant for my period of 332BC.
In fact, this ship looks very much like the Kyrenia ship which is probably from around 350BC:

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It has more or less the same size and is the next one I planned to build in scale 1:72, a little bigger than the Uluburun type.
The biggest difference between Maagan Michael and Kyrenia are the Maagans' straight stem and stern that come diagonally out of the water, while the Kyrenia ship has a round stern and a hollow stem. For the rest I can find little difference. But what is so great is the high quality detailed video you present us. Lots of details of the construction and rigging are very clearly visible. This will help me to make technical and design decisions about my future models.

Here is a short video fragment I found in addition to yours:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1vtIn0Qmnc

Kostis Ornerakis wrote:If I may suggest, a wire ring could be made from thin wires the same way you make tree trunks.

Thanks for the input Kostis but I am not sure what you mean with this: isn't it the same thing I tried to achieve with my first group of tapered baskets or did I understand you wrong?

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huib wrote:The second from left.

I am very sorry but that is not correct Huib :-D
You under-estimate my wife in this I think :mrgreen:
Two more chances to go....
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Mr. Cryns  Netherlands

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Posted by Kostis Ornerakis on 20 Mar 2017, 19:15

It is really not important, but I like chatting with you for our hobby. :-D
When you refer that you finishing the basket with a woven ring I thought you also could achieve this (ring) with twisted wires, instead of thread. I suppose it's easier to handle.
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Kostis Ornerakis  Greece
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Posted by dirk on 21 Mar 2017, 12:40

Wonderful work of you !

I look forward and see the next steps of this project.
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Posted by Frankzett on 21 Mar 2017, 13:49

Great work, fine details. This tiny baskets are incredible!
But I think the oxhide shape is a real Bronze Age/Early Iron Age pattern. I have doupts that there were oxhide ingots in later, classical times.

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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 22 Mar 2017, 12:09

Gentlemen thank you so much for your kind replies and input :-D

Frankzett wrote:oxhide shape is a real Bronze Age/Early Iron Age pattern. I have doupts that there were oxhide ingots in later, classical times.

Yes you must be right. :oops: I have seen them in square and circular shapes too. Do you think that will fit this period better?

RESIN PROTOTYPES OF BOTH SHIP VARIATIONS

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Both variations of this ship are casted in multi colored resin now:

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Cargo and crew are missing yet and so are the ropes, cables and lines that will be added after painting is finished.

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There are countless small and bigger airbubbles in these castings. That is not only because of the resin producing gas during the hardening process, but also because the silicone molds were made without the use of a vacuum machine.

THE GREEK STYLE PROTOTYPE:

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THE PHOENICIAN STYLE PROTOTYPE:

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Posted by Kostis Ornerakis on 22 Mar 2017, 20:08

FANTASTIC!!! :yeah: :thumbup: :notworthy:
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Posted by Wiking on 22 Mar 2017, 20:35

Impressive.
True modelling from the figures to the ships and the goods.
A lot of idea and how to do. :-D
Thanks to show us how some things that can be done seflmade.
:yeah:
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Posted by despertaferro on 22 Mar 2017, 21:29

Dear Mr. Cryns,

your modelling skills are so outstanding that I'm afraid to be too pretentious for making any comment about.

But because I think you're a perfectionist, let me tell you what I think about some very minor details about the anchors: in my opinion, the way you hang them on the gunwale would be right for the moment just before anchoring. And just one of them, being the second anchor a spare one. While sailing, they would be safely stored inside the boat and close to the keel axis.

And maybe they are too big for the boats size: To pull an anchor this size from the water level to the deck you probably need some kind of pulley system. Or a couple of sailors with a gorilla size arms and shoulders.

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Posted by Mr. Cryns on 23 Mar 2017, 09:38

Thank you so much Kostis, Wiking and Despertaferro :-D

despertaferro wrote:I'm afraid to be too pretentious for making any comment about.

No no please don't, I am participating in a forum like this to get feedback of any kind
despertaferro wrote:And maybe they are too big for the boats size:

Exactly this is what I need you guys for.
All the time I was focussing on the proportions of the anchors itself but not on its sizes compared to the size of this very small ship. I wanted to make the central poles a little longer since I based their proportions to much on 'compressed' coin images. But you make me decide it would be better to make some new anchors with shorter flukes and shorter stone stock so the anchor becomes smaller in stead of bigger. These bigger anchors will go to my (future) bigger ships.
To pull an anchor this size from the water level to the deck you probably need some kind of pulley system. Or a couple of sailors with a gorilla size arms and shoulders.

Yes. I have no clear idea of this. Thats partly because I could find no ancient images of anchors being attached to the ship or visible on the deck and you probably give the reason why:
despertaferro wrote:While sailing, they would be safely stored inside the boat and close to the keel axis.

Yes that should be correct, it is where many spare stone anchors were found in the bronze age shipwrecks.
despertaferro wrote:the way you hang them on the gunwale would be right for the moment just before anchoring. And just one of them, being the second anchor a spare one.

Well, this was only a temporary postion to show them in the pictures since the cables to fasten them are missing. But it already generated your usefull comments. And I have to admit I did not position them on the front deck because two anchors would fill up that tiny deck completely... which means again they must be too big.

So thanks again for your useful input :yeah: :-D
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Posted by Frankzett on 23 Mar 2017, 17:31

Great models I think they fix with periods of the late Bronze Age to the Iron Age.
And now some pentecontor warships for the "greek pirates" with geometric style armour like the zvezda Spartans?

Greetings
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Posted by Félix on 23 Mar 2017, 19:42

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This is the small new colony that begins its foundation.

Obviously I can not thank for he whole help that has provided the metropolis to me.

Thank you very much Mr. Cryns!!!!!!!!
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