Ming army project (Battle of Byeokjegwan,1593)

[DickerThomas]

Hello Lirui,

great work .. the rider looks great

I have some littlle questionsthe horse you used for the rider .. from which set is it ? (because of the bridle and the saddle)

And another little Question about the datong garrison .. how did they transport the ammunition ? because when i look at every picture i have .. there is no Bag or anything else to carry the ammunition with.. or did they have some soldiers which only were loading the guns ?

Many thanks again for your great help ..

[Phersu]

I had thought the same way before : make a tool ( copper hollow tube), are you going to use this method? I'm looking forward to......

Weigh advantages and disadvantages, "Real scale" it sounds great , express the effect by 0.35mm micro-spheres is easy to operate and it is stick out of the surface as the real situation also had a nice appearance.

I always used the same method with hollow tubes, and I stll think is the most practical and quick.
I used any tiny tube or empty cylinder I can find... even plastic and vegetal stems.
I think the best are the hollows in stainless or chrome metal, or anything with glossy surface... as totally flat and smooth tools don't stick on the putty, allowing neater and clearer incision.
But the smallest I have can make round incisions of 0,3 mm... I haven't find anything smaller.

I never tried microspheres, but I guess that positioning anything smaler than 0,3 would be very difficult, probably much more difficult than using tiny round hollow punches... especially to recreate such a thick tiny regular grid!

So this time, to tried to make more smaller studs on the Datong uniforms, making just holes with a needle... and discovering that nice curios tiny studs effect that can be seen in some holes in the zoomed image.
Despite, as you can see, it didn't worked on every hole I made... of course is not so easy, and it will take a lot of practice to learn how to make it work... just like anything new.



On the right I tried to draw a scheme of how it works:
first the needle top is pushed in the putty, to impress it's shape and create a round hole... under the pin tip there is more pressure than on the sides all around, and its the place that stick more to the putty.
When the needle is pulled out the tip pulls and lift the putty exactly in the middle of the hole.

[lirui]

I have some littlle questionsthe horse you used for the rider .. from which set is it ? (because of the bridle and the saddle)

And another little Question about the datong garrison .. how did they transport the ammunition ? because when i look at every picture i have .. there is no Bag or anything else to carry the ammunition with.. or did they have some soldiers which only were loading the guns ?

ITALERI 6123 Chinese Cavalry

They would had a bag when marching, in fact ,three groups of gunner take turns to fire when they use matchlock, their ammunition may put together on the rear of the field. Generally, gunner used three-eye blunderbuss , they were commanded to fire only very close distance ,strictly according to tactical ; after one fire , they retreat or put into melee-fight then blunderbuss used as a blunt weapon.

[Durruti]

Such amazing figures by lirui.

ITALERI 6123 Chinese Cavalry

I'd love to know how many of that 13th Century set sold, especially in China. ITALERI recently ran a poll for suggestions on new figure sets and I asked for Chinese Song Dynasty infantry and artillery, Korean Goryeo Dynasty troops and Japanese Kamakura Era samurai.


https://www.facebook.com/ItaleriModelKit/photos/pcb.1202283683177583/1202272519845366/?type=3&theater

[lirui]

I'd love to know how many of that 13th Century set sold, especially in China.

Hi Durruti ,I think was just O.k. , probably because of the following reasons

ITALERI 6123:↓
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Review.aspx?id=1510

figure 1： Liao country(Our Song dynasty's Allies)
figure 2： Tang dynasty (yes, ) ← × not 13th
figure 3： Liao country(Our Song dynasty's Allies,the khitans)
figure 4：Song dynasty's heavy cavalry
figure 5： Song dynasty's horsemen
horse 1： Tang dynasty ← × not 13th
horse 2： Liao country
horse 3： Song dynasty's light horse
horse 3： Song dynasty's Heavily armoured horse

Fortunately, few mistakes，none Jin country's men, nor mongols........

[Durruti]

Hi lirui,
Ah yes, I did notice that figure 2 was based on a picture of a Tang imperial guard in Osprey MAA 295. A bonus for those interested in the Tang period! Also too many fully armoured horses.

Thanks for the information!

[DickerThomas]

Hello Lirui,

many thanks for these Info's .. if i want a heavy ming-chinese cavalry , it is not so bad to use the Song dynasty's Heavily armoured horse ...

[Durruti]

Hi again lirui,

I have another more general question on how you think we in "the west" should classify the history of what we call "far east", "oriental", "east asian" region etc.

I ask because the Plastic Soldier Review Periods page reflects our confusion because we view history in very west-centric terms - ancient, dark ages, medieval/middle ages, renaissance,, enlightenment, imperialist, modern etc.

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/PeriodList.aspx?period=9

This the Medieval Asia section:
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/PeriodList.aspx?period=8

But most of these sets cover the 16th-17th centuries which would be called "late renaissance" for Europe! Only the Chinese cavalry, Mongols and a few Japanese warrior monks without guns would be considered "medieval" in western terms (and the ninja in black pajamas are total Edo-period fantasy that don't belong on the site! )

I think the excellent Plastic Soldier Review guy knows this as the special 16th-17th Century China section has been removed from the "Periods" page and the Caesar Ming and Qing sets are nowhere to be found there

Please help!

[lirui]

Hi Durruti
This is a very interesting question, I'm not quite understand the differences between the three words.
"far east", I think it was refered to Japan and surrounding islands.
"oriental", May be only China&Japan?
"east asian" ,China、 Korea、 Japan、 Mongol,etc.....
Well, it's only my opinion

I doubt that Plastic Soldier Review guys not sure whether these two set conform to the historical accuracy,so removed them. In fact these two set are limited. Ming set,many soldiers with spear were rather Song dynasty's low-level soldiers than Ming,more suitable for the early stage of the Ming dynasty . In late Ming, low-level soldiers usually wear a "罩甲”,with rivet,

Set of Qing dynasty are all of officers .

The Ming dynasty lasted 276 years, then nomadic people‘Manchu’, the Qing dynasty ruled China
Our manners and customs、clothes even hairstyle were forced to change. The ruler of Qing dynasty destroyed a lot of information,literary inquisition were more terrible.
So it is difficult for ourselves to research historical military information......Fortunately, after the second world war and KMT-CPC civil war ended ,many precious paintings and antiques are preserved very well in Taiwan

It's a pity that Qing dynasty relics in Beijing ; Ming dynasty style, watching Korean costume piece... Really ashamed.....

[Durruti]

Hi Lirui,

Many thanks for your input again!

Sorry, my first link should have been this one which is the Periods main page :

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Periods.aspx

I think the problem PSR has is one of classification for what we'll call the "east asian" figures using your definition. Currently the "Medieval Asia" section has sets covering mostly the 16th-17th centuries (and some Edo-looking unarmoured samurai that look most suitable for 18th century Japan! ) At one time PSR had a "16th-17th Century China" section which contained only the Caesar Ming & Qing but that was removed recently probably because it was too confusing (why have the Redbox Ming set in the Medieval section and the Caesar one separately??????)

In west-centric terms the high to late medieval period lasted from 10th - 15th centuries so (again being west-centric ) most of these sets should be something like "Renaissance East Asia" but that just sounds strange Only the Chinese cavalry, Mongols, a few Japanese and perhaps early Ming would be "Medieval" (and that Tang cavalryman 8th century so "Dark Ages East Asia" )

Well I'm confused, anyway,,,

[rayloryan]

wonderful job. my friend. such a masterpiece. Hope we'll see more of them

[lirui]

The thirteenth：
第十三个：
"Jinyi Wei draw out a sword” or "The southern army officer”
拔刀的锦衣卫 or 南军军官

pic1：One picture of Ming'《徐显卿宦迹图》，painting described that The emperor Wanli walked to the temple of heaven to sacrifice.
图1：明《徐显卿宦迹图》之一副图片，所绘是明神宗步行去天坛祭祀的场景。

pic2：Jinyi Wei form 《徐显卿宦迹图》.The helmet is fully imitated.
图2：《徐显卿宦迹图》图中的锦衣卫。造型上的头盔被完全采用。

pic3：position, afflatus.
图3：姿势来源。








Jinyi Wei's battlefield equipments : Six pieces helmet + armor was also the same to Ming's southern army officers,
锦衣卫战场装造型，六瓣飞碟盔+罩甲，也可以用作 南军军官。

[MABO]

Fantastic figure again.

[Kekso]

Yup, that last figure is awesome

[DickerThomas]

Great figure again, Lirui

..and many thanks for the pcitures

[KenzoSato]

Fantastic

[lirui]

Had made some kinds of weapons with historical comparison , is it more stimulating
制作了一批武器，加以历史图片对比，这样是不是更刺激

















fourteenth:
第十四个：
Running horse
奔跑的战马








fifteenth:
第十五个：
captain
校尉











with variety of weapons:
更换武器的效果：









faced with death who will survive?

[Peter]

That rider is awesome!

[MABO]

Exactly!

[rayloryan]

fantasitc work. we need more of them