Questions

Primer peeling off...

Posted by Ender Duman on 11 Apr 2012, 13:04

Hello everyone. I'm sorry if this had been discussed before. I'm using Vallejo black primer. I brush it on. The coverage is perfect, the paint holds on easily. But the primer easily peels off. Painted figures seem to be very delicate, not things that can be handled during a game. Am I doing something wrong? (I'm not thinning the primer.)

PS: After I paint I apply a single coat of satin varnish (FolkArt) and when it dries a single coat of W&N matte varnish. I thought maybe the varnish is the problem and tried not varnishing. No change.
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Ender Duman  Turkey
 
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21 Oct 2011, 15:49


Posted by zzed on 11 Apr 2012, 13:47

hi,

you have to wash the figures with detergent first, one used for dish washing, and then let them dry throughly.
After that you should not touch them with your fingers, and avoid any kind of greasing.
For a primer I can recommend Revell anthracite matt enamel colour, in the most cases it sticks perfectly if applied in right consistency, and left it for two days to dry completely to be sure.
Now you can paint whatever you want, and if you plan to handle figures a lot than you must apply some varnish to protect them. Although rough handling will cause damaging a paintwork in some extent.
You may consider to base them onto the coins or similar bases, to avoid grabbing the figures with fingers directly.

Main reason for peeling is that your primer is not affixed firmly on to the figure.

best regards
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zzed  Croatia
 
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Posted by Panzer_M on 11 Apr 2012, 16:30

you need to prep the plastic...and you can buy the pink soap from Testors called Plastic-Prep or regular LSD,I got a 8oz bottle as a gift, I use it for what it is and it works well, no complaints

LSD, liquid dish soap :nono: figured I should clarify
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Panzer_M  
 
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Posted by Duke atreides on 11 Apr 2012, 17:47

All the above... and a friend of mine, after the painting, gives a coat of white glue. After dry, it's transparent.
I must try it myself...
Duke atreides  Portugal
 
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Posted by Gowan on 12 Apr 2012, 03:04

Duke atreides wrote:All the above... and a friend of mine, after the painting, gives a coat of white glue. After dry, it's transparent.
I must try it myself...


brilliant tip I must try that one day :-D

oh yes wash your figs, I use washing up liquid and experiance no problems even with my sub standard paints ;-)
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Gowan  
 
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13 Dec 2011, 04:33

Posted by Ender Duman on 25 Apr 2012, 16:39

Thanks everyone. But the problem continues :( I washed the figures with LDS (the soap kind:) a couple of times actually. But still the primer peels off. There is a shop that sells GW stuff. I asked the guys there about it and they said they also used Valeejo primer (brush on). They showed me their miniatures (they are not miniatures I think, they are giants, didn't like them:) and I saw that you have to "try to peel the paint" off, it doesn't peel of on itself like my vikings. I washed the Viking king figure with a special anti-grease-oven-cleaner thingy stuff but still... Despite the washing, the primer, satin varnish (two coats!) and matte varnish, last night I accidentally peeled off the paint on his chest.
Excuse the rattle, here are my questions:

1: How about using extra high gloss varnish as primer and then just simply undercoating with regular black/white/grey paint? Here is a link to the first painting tutorial I read http://beepdf.com/doc/120378/painting_1_72_scale_plastic_soldiers.html. In this tutorial the painter primes the figures with varnish and then paints on white undercoat. Would that work?

2: Am I simply expecting too much from soft plastics and primers? Do I have to simply be more careful and not let anyone play with my figures? (I don't want to be that guy:)) I mean, is this the natural order of things?
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Ender Duman  Turkey
 
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Posted by musketier on 25 Apr 2012, 17:27

Interesting problem you are experiencing. I use a liquid dish soap with lemon juice added or any lsd with degreaser will work in warm water and using a soft brush scrub the figures ,using as much suds as possible on the figures (works best if they are on the sprue) I let them soak for a little bit and then I set up two plastic bins (3 in total I use 1 has soapy water) with cool water in each and that is my rinse water I then let air dry on a towel. I then use a generic spray primer I get at the local hardware store and prime them with that, I have not experienced primer flaking off at the touch, however I have experienced flaking primer when I used specific primers made for plastics. I would like to know what brand figures you are experiencing this with as some manufacturers have a lot of mold release or some plastics do react badly to some oil based paints. You can also make a mixture up of 50/50 white glue and water as a sealer to your figure when it is done and paint is cured thoroughly, if you don't mind it being a little shiny (kind of like a satin finish). This method should work as long as you allow time between each step, ie figure is completely dry after wash, primer is cured after application and your paint work is cured totally before sealer is applied. I also dont let any one handle my figures without washing their hands first but that's just me.
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musketier  United States of America
 
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Posted by Mário on 28 Apr 2012, 09:56

Good morning
I have experienced the same problem. I tried Tamya primer with mixed results and then I found what for me the best solution is.

- I start by washing the figures with dish detergent and warm water
- Then I rinse them abundantly and let them dry over a thick cardboard
- Then I apply a coat of Humbroll enamel matt varnish nº 49 very well stirred
- After that I start painting the figures. After applying all the colors and before going back to to the corrections, detailing, washing etc. that need a lot of handling, I apply another coat of the same varnish
- When the figure is finished it receives another coat of the same varnish to prevent it from losing paint through handling (I use the figures for war gamming, skirmish type, so they have a lot of handling)

The results are good, most of the times, some Italeri figures still lose some paint at the edges that are handled and some Airfix very flexible figures tend to peel off (I have retouches my Portuguese Napoleonic Infantry, made of Airfix British infantry twice, and the bayonets have started to peel off again)

I will try the wood glue next time.

Have a good time

Mário
Mário  Portugal
 
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Posted by Ender Duman on 24 Nov 2012, 01:03

Gentelman excuse me for being so rude and not replying before. I had forgotten about this question. Thank you for your suggestions. I will try them out and let you know.
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Ender Duman  Turkey
 
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Posted by Ender Duman on 21 Dec 2012, 02:13

I just want to make a quick note of my experiments :) so that those who stumble upon this entry in their quest for the holy primer can take a lesson from them:

I think I finally solved the issue. I used Revell enamel anthracite grey (no 9, matte) thinned with turpentine. I applied 2 thin coats, letting the first coat dry for 12 hours. That did the trick. While the Vallejo primer was peeling off with a slight accidental touch, I have to actually try to scratch the enamel coat. Well, I can scratch it eventually, no figure can stand the might of my fingers but this is already a great result for me. Finally I can start painting the figures I need for my diorama.

I ordered Humbrol enamel primer (no 1 grey primer) and matte black. I hope to get even better results with those.
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Ender Duman  Turkey
 
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